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MARVELL SATA3 problem

Dark Mantis

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2010, 04:17:32 pm »
No absic I was not aware of this either. Will have to do some research. ???
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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2010, 04:32:09 pm »
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absic

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2010, 04:44:53 pm »
So, now I'm not sure where that leaves me.  ???

Is the problem my choice of Hard Drive? 

Shouldn't I run SATA 6Gb/s HDD's on the SATA3 Channels?

Will RAID 0 on the Marvell 9128 Chip, only work with SATA2 HDD's or SSD's?



Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

Dark Mantis

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2010, 04:51:51 pm »
I have sent a direct question to Western Digital regarding this problem and will post the answer when I get it. However doing some digging on the WD site and I came across this which I thought might be relevant.

Quote
Western Digital manufactures desktop edition hard drives and RAID Edition hard drives. Each type of hard drive is designed to work specifically as a stand-alone drive, or in a multi-drive RAID environment.

If you install and use a desktop edition hard drive connected to a RAID controller, the drive may not work correctly. This is caused by the normal error recovery procedure that a desktop edition hard drive uses.

Note: There are a few cases where the manufacturer of the RAID controller have designed their drives to work with specific model Desktop drives. If this is the case you would need to contact the manufacturer of that enclosure for any support on that drive while it is used in a RAID environment.

When an error is found on a desktop edition hard drive, the drive will enter into a deep recovery cycle to attempt to repair the error, recover the data from the problematic area, and then reallocate a dedicated area to replace the problematic area. This process can take up to 2 minutes depending on the severity of the issue. Most RAID controllers allow a very short amount of time for a hard drive to recover from an error. If a hard drive takes too long to complete this process, the drive will be dropped from the RAID array. Most RAID controllers allow from 7 to 15 seconds for error recovery before dropping a hard drive from an array. Western Digital does not recommend installing desktop edition hard drives in an enterprise environment (on a RAID controller).

Western Digital RAID edition hard drives have a feature called TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery) which stops the hard drive from entering into a deep recovery cycle. The hard drive will only spend 7 seconds to attempt to recover. This means that the hard drive will not be dropped from a RAID array. While TLER is designed for RAID environments, a drive with TLER enabled will work with no performance decrease when used in non-RAID environments.

So possibly the problem lies with our choice of drive to use as RAID. Once again if this is the case then it is well covered up by the manufacturer in the small print ::)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 04:53:53 pm by Dark Mantis »
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absic

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2010, 05:12:45 pm »
 
Quote
WD Caviar Black drives combine a high performance electronics architecture with a rock solid mechanical architecture to deliver the perfect storage solution for your fully-loaded PC or maxed out gaming machine. Cool drive operation, no-touch head technology, leading-edge vibration protection ensure enhanced reliability.
Took this from Scan UK's website it doesn't say that you can use these Drives  for a RAID Array but it doesn't say that you can't! ( http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/640GB-Western-Digital-WD6402AAEX-Caviar-Black-SATA-6Gb-s-7200rpm-64MB-Cache )

I will try setting up RAID 0 again but I will do so with my 2 SATA2 Hitachi drives and see what difference that makes.

Just to throw another spanner in the works, when I purchased my Mobo I was impressed by the following image:  



Not sure how others see this but I know how I interpret it!

« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 05:17:13 pm by absic115 »
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

Dark Mantis

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2010, 05:16:52 pm »
I would interpret it the same as you or any other individual looking at it. The problem being that what it says and what it lives up to are rather different.  >:(
Gigabyte X58A-UD7
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i7 3770K
Vengeance 1600 16GB
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absic

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2010, 05:20:24 pm »
Another interesting thing to note is, that at the time of purchase, the only SATA3 HDD's available were the Western Digital Caviar Black and even today, there is a very limited choice in this area.

If SATA3 will only work properly with SSD's shouldn't this be made clearer?
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

Dark Mantis

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2010, 05:23:52 pm »
Yes a very valid point absic. In fact when I looked for my drives they didn't even have the 1Gb model out here. As you say if it only works with SSDs then it is rather pointless because they are not in use in any quantity especially at a size that would make RAID0 a reasonable setup.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 05:28:13 pm by Dark Mantis »
Gigabyte X58A-UD7
i7 920
Dominators 1600 x6 12GB
6970 2GB
HX850
256GB SSD, Sam 1TB, WDB320GB
Blu-Ray
HAF 932

Gigabyte Z68X-UD5-B3
i7 3770K
Vengeance 1600 16GB
6950 2GB
HCP1200W
Revo Drive x2, 1.5TB WDB RAID0
16x DLRW
StrikeX S7
Full water cooling
3 x 27" Iiy

absic

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2010, 05:30:31 pm »
Just checked at Scan UK for available SATA 6Gb/s HDD's they have only 9 items available. Six standard HDD's and three SSD's.
Here's a link: http://www.scan.co.uk/Shop/Computer-Hardware/All/Hard-Drives-Int/SATA-III

So, in the UK we do seem a bit limited for choice!  :-\ And there is no way I could afford or justify the £490 for a single 256 GB SSD!!  :o
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

Dark Mantis

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2010, 05:51:27 pm »
I have just gone through the list that you posted and there isn't a mention of TLER or not being RAID friendly anywhere.
Gigabyte X58A-UD7
i7 920
Dominators 1600 x6 12GB
6970 2GB
HX850
256GB SSD, Sam 1TB, WDB320GB
Blu-Ray
HAF 932

Gigabyte Z68X-UD5-B3
i7 3770K
Vengeance 1600 16GB
6950 2GB
HCP1200W
Revo Drive x2, 1.5TB WDB RAID0
16x DLRW
StrikeX S7
Full water cooling
3 x 27" Iiy

Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2010, 06:12:24 pm »
Just to throw another spanner in the works, when I purchased my Mobo I was impressed by the following image:  



Not sure how others see this but I know how I interpret it!


It should look like my avatar... :)
Intel Core i7 920 O/C @3.36GHz, Gigabyte X58A-UD3R (Rev. 1.0), G.Skill ECO Series F3-12800CL8D-4GBECO 2x2 GB, OCZ StealthXStream 600W, Titan Fenrir V2 CPU Cooler, Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB SATA3, XFX 8600GT 256MB, LG GH22NS50, Benq G222HDL

Dark Mantis

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2010, 10:42:37 am »
Just checked at Scan UK for available SATA 6Gb/s HDD's they have only 9 items available. Six standard HDD's and three SSD's.
Here's a link: http://www.scan.co.uk/Shop/Computer-Hardware/All/Hard-Drives-Int/SATA-III

So, in the UK we do seem a bit limited for choice!  :-\ And there is no way I could afford or justify the £490 for a single 256 GB SSD!!  :o

Quote
I have just gone through the list that you posted and there isn't a mention of TLER or not being RAID friendly anywhere.

I have just been checking on the Western Digital site to see what drives actually come under the "Enterprise" banner as suitable for RAID and the only one that is for SATA3 as far as performance goes is the 600Gb Velociraptor. So it would appear that once again we have been shafted by the corporate clowns who hide this information away. >:(
Gigabyte X58A-UD7
i7 920
Dominators 1600 x6 12GB
6970 2GB
HX850
256GB SSD, Sam 1TB, WDB320GB
Blu-Ray
HAF 932

Gigabyte Z68X-UD5-B3
i7 3770K
Vengeance 1600 16GB
6950 2GB
HCP1200W
Revo Drive x2, 1.5TB WDB RAID0
16x DLRW
StrikeX S7
Full water cooling
3 x 27" Iiy

absic

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2010, 12:08:22 pm »
Gigabyte 1 : Western Digital 0

OK I am big enough to admit it when I get things wrong and with help from other members of the forum I think I now have a better understanding of the situation and the major problems with the Marvell 9128 SATA3 interface. DON'T use SATA3 6GB/s HDD's use SATA2 3GB/s HDD's instead.

This morning I once again reconfigured my PC but, instead of trying to use the Western Digital 640 GB SATA3 6GB/s HDD's (thanks for the heads up on that one Pierre!) I utilised my two Hitachi Deskstar 1TB SATA2 3GB/s HDD's. I set-up the Marvell 9128 for a RAID 0 Array and am currently testing the system for stability. So far everything seems to be working well.

Now, I am a realist and I don't for one minute expect to obtain the 4X speed improvement with RAID 0 using mechanical HDD's but, as you can see from the following picture, I have managed to improve the Read/Write speeds considerably.

Previously I had only been able to get my SATA3 6GB/s HDD to run in IDE mode on the Marvell 9128 Chip with the following result:


This actually improves the throughput by about 2X and personally I feel this is acceptable. The one downside of this is that the only way I have been able to get Disk information from the Marvell Array is to use the Marvell Raid Utility, no biggie really and that's one of the things it is there for.

Connecting the Western Digital SATA3 6GB/s HDD's to the SATA2 ports on my motherboard actually sees them gain in Read/Write capabilities as well, only about 20MB/s but it is still better than on the SATA3 ports!


Therefore, I have to conclude that the problem isn't with the Marvell 9128 Chip but with some of the popular SATA3 6GB/s HDD's that are widely available from Western Digital. If any company is to blame I think we should really be looking there not at Gigabyte.

The big issue here is once again with the way things are being advertised. As consumers we expect great things when we see numbers such as "SATA3 6GB/s Twice the Speed of SATA2 3GB/s" being bandied about or "4X speed improvement over RAID 0 on SATA2". I believe that these speeds are achievable but only if you invest in expensive SSD's and this is the problem. In the race to sell products, manufacturers neglect to paint the whole picture and we are led to believe in things by intimation rather than by fact. The old caveat "Buyer beware" springs to mind. I don't think that I am particularly stupid and, before investing in my current PC, I spent a lot of time researching yet I fell for the hype too. I honestly thought that putting SATA3 6GB/s HDD's onto the SATA3 ports, would result in an overall system improvement....wrong!

By setting up a RAID 0 array on the Marvell 9128 Chip using SATA2 HDD's I have managed to get approximately 2X faster speeds and the system, so far, seems to be a very happy bunny. When I can afford to invest in a couple of SSD's I will be looking for 4X speed but until then and with the limitations of Mechanical Hard drives, I will live with the 2X speed that I have now got.

Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2010, 12:19:44 pm »
By setting up a RAID 0 array on the Marvell 9128 Chip using SATA2 HDD's I have managed to get approximately 2X faster speeds and the system, so far, seems to be a very happy bunny. When I can afford to invest in a couple of SSD's I will be looking for 4X speed but until then and with the limitations of Mechanical Hard drives, I will live with the 2X speed that I have now got.

I think this may be a good opportunity for Gigabyte to prove the capability of their board. Most of the customer may not have enough to buy several SSDs but I think Gigabyte has the budget to do so. Why doesn't Gigabyte perform some tests using SSDs and show us that the advertised 4x is true or is close to truth?
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Dark Mantis

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Re: MARVELL SATA3 problem
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2010, 12:22:09 pm »
I am afraid that I would have to agree and the fact that Gigabyte did indeed mislead by advertising 4x the speed of SATA2 by using RAID0 SATA3 which is NOT realistic at all is not wholly the issue. It more boils down to being badly sold the Western Digital SATA3 hard drives which are not really suitable for RAID! Although they don't make this fact well publicised.  >:( >:( >:(

Quote
I honestly thought that putting SATA3 6GB/s HDD's onto the SATA3 ports, would result in an overall system improvement....wrong!
I would like to say regarding this quote from absic that if there is no improvement by using SATA3 drives or ports what is the point of having them?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 12:27:14 pm by Dark Mantis »
Gigabyte X58A-UD7
i7 920
Dominators 1600 x6 12GB
6970 2GB
HX850
256GB SSD, Sam 1TB, WDB320GB
Blu-Ray
HAF 932

Gigabyte Z68X-UD5-B3
i7 3770K
Vengeance 1600 16GB
6950 2GB
HCP1200W
Revo Drive x2, 1.5TB WDB RAID0
16x DLRW
StrikeX S7
Full water cooling
3 x 27" Iiy