GA-MA790FXT-UD5P DDR3 ECC support with Phenom II X4 processor...

[stuart]

In advance of the Technet release of Windows 7, I decided to upgrade my existing PC.  After a truly horrible experience with a Foxconn A79A-S which never worked properly (read the reviews - even professional reviews were finding that things as simple as USB peripherals didn't work reliably with this board.  Bitter?  Not me ) I decided that I wanted something provably correct - and this (to me, at least) means ECC memory.

I checked with Gigabyte technical support, who confirmed that this board does support ECC memory.
I also checked with crucial.com technical, who said that whilst they didn't have data for this particular board, their ECC memory would support the ECC-capable memory controller found in Socket AM3 processors.

On the back of this, I ordered 2 x CT25672BA1339.18SFD modules from Crucial/Micron.

Unfortunately, when inserted into the board, all that happens at power-up is that the board starts beeping.  After the 15th beep, the 16th is cut short, the fans spin up slightly, and the whole processes repeats.

I was able to test the new CPU in the Foxconn board, and this worked.  Later, after borrowing some other (non-ECC) memory from a friend, I was able to test this in my exact setup - and it worked first time.

So I'm at a loss... Gigabyte technical support were able to point me to a specific DDR3 ECC DIMM which is officially qualified for this board (although the manufacturer's only UK reseller has no stock and can't even get a price) so ECC should work.  The fact that the system started with everything but the memory the same indicates that there's no other fault.

(Yes, I've tried the 2 DIMMs with either first in both pairs of sockets - all with the same negative result)

So (finally ) my question is - is anyone here successfully running ECC memory on a MA-790FXT-UD5P board?

I may simply have been hugely unlucky and received a dud DIMM from Crucial...

[mark rumsey]

Have you tested the memory in another board? As you say, you may have been unlucky and might have duff memory. However, I suspect there is a compatibility issue here and the system doens't like the ECC DIMMs you've got especially if the memory (or similar spec memory) isn't included on the compatibility list. About the only thing I can suggest you try is borrow some non-ECC memory and try upgrading the BIOS to the latest version in case ECC support is something that's only recently been added to the board. One other thing, exactly which Phenom II processor do you have?

I had similar problems with a Soltek boardin my old system. This was an Athlon XP 2000+ based system with 512MB and it worked fine. I then decided up upgrade the RAM to extend its life and bought 3x1GB sticks for it. These were PC2100 DDR, which is actually more expensive now than DDR3, and installed them only to find the PC failed to boot and wiped the CMOS settings. I then tried three more sticks from another supplier who guaranteed compatibility, and they didn't work either, although they were better. The best I could achieve was with the second batch where I could install 2 sticks, but only if I increased the memory voltage, and even then it was a little flaky. So, I gave up and bought new hardware based around a MA790FXT-UD5P/Phenom II X4 955 combo with 8GB non-ECC DDR3 memory which I am extremely pleased with.

[stuart]

Have you tested the memory in another board?

No - unfortunately the only other DDR3 board that anyone I know has is a Core i7 system, and these don't support ECC, so I have no way to test.

As you say, you may have been unlucky and might have duff memory. However, I suspect there is a compatibility issue here and the system doens't like the ECC DIMMs you've got especially if the memory (or similar spec memory) isn't included on the compatibility list.

My thinking too...

I have the exact specs of the qualified modules, so I'm trying to confirm with Crucial whether their modules do appear to differ.

About the only thing I can suggest you try is borrow some non-ECC memory and try upgrading the BIOS to the latest version in case ECC support is something that's only recently been added to the board.

It's a good thought - but probably not possible: my colleague from whom I borrowed the non-ECC memory said that it was lots of hassle to take the memory out of his system, and probably won't want to do so again...

One other thing, exactly which Phenom II processor do you have?

Phenom II X4 955 BE - although (at least) all quad-core processors (and probably all Phenom IIs) appear to support ECC.

[mark rumsey]

OK, I've just pulled this off the AMD website.

Integrated DRAM Controller with AMD Memory Optimizer Technology
* A high-bandwidth, low-latency integrated memory controller
* Supports PC2-8500 (DDR2-1066); PC2-6400 (DDR2-800), PC2-5300 (DDR2-667), PC2-4200 (DDR2-533) or PC2-3200 (DDR2-400) SDRAM unbuffered DIMMs – AM2+
* Support for unregistered DIMMs up to PC2 8500(DDR2-1066MHz) and PC3 10600 (DDR3-1333MHz) – AM3
* Up to 17.1GB/s memory bandwidth for DDR2 and up to 21GB/s memory bandwidth for DDR3
   * Benefit: Quick access to system memory for better performance.

So, as far as this goes, it appears that your memory should be OK with the processor provided it is unregistered (unbuffered) as there is no mention of ECC/non ECC on the AMD website. However, I just found this on the Cruicial website when checking their memory compatibility with the 790FXT board.

Your system does not support ECC. Because ECC and non-ECC modules should not be mixed within a system, install the same type of modules that are already in your system.

So, as far as Crucial are concerned they don't believe the memory you have is compatible with this board. As far as Gigabyte are concenred, who knows? I can't find any reference to ECC or non ECC memory anywhere on the Gigabyte website or in the documentation relating to this board. Reading between the lines this probably means that Crucial are right and the board itself doesn't support ECC memory, although it is interesting that Gigabyte Tech were able to point you at ECC memory that should work.

[stuart]

So, as far as Crucial are concerned they don't believe the memory you have is compatible with this board. As far as Gigabyte are concenred, who knows? I can't find any reference to ECC or non ECC memory anywhere on the Gigabyte website or in the documentation relating to this board. Reading between the lines this probably means that Crucial are right and the board itself doesn't support ECC memory, although it is interesting that Gigabyte Tech were able to point you at ECC memory that should work.

I spoke to Crucial today, and apparently this topic has kicked up a bit of a storm within their tech. support department

The guy I spoke to said that investigations had been carried out, and it appears that the ECC memory which Gigabyte used to demonstrate (to me at least, in response to my technical support query) that this board is ECC-compatible (which isn't specifically listed anywhere - you have to look up the part-numbers of the qualified memory modules) is non-standard, in that it can operate in ECC or non-ECC mode and automatically switch between the two.  Crucial's ECC memory, they tell me, can operate only in ECC mode, which requires an additional physical address line to be present on the mainboard in question.  They assert that Gigabyte are claiming ECC compliance because the board in question will work with a particular ECC DIMM, whereas this is actually only possible because that DIMM is also able to operate in non-ECC mode.

Whilst I keep an open mind, this certainly has the advantage of fitting in with all of the available information... in which case I see it as a definite black mark against Gigabyte's technical support staff given that they clearly stated that the board supports ECC memory, and then confirmed this in no uncertain terms when I asked them to double-check to be sure.

Luckily I won't be significantly out of pocket for too long over this matter (Crucial have an excellent returns policy) - but it's a very poor showing from Gigabyte.

If anyone from Gigabyte is reading this message and wishes to comment or to contact me directly, I would welcome the opportunity to hear their side of the story.

[runn3R]

Hi stuart

Sorry for so long delay but it took some time to borrow the ECC memory from Crucial as we did not have them in our lab.

So finally the test was done with following configuration:
Motherboard: MA790FXT-UD5P
Bios version: F7a
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955
Memory : Crucial CT25672BA1339.18FF 2GB ECC x2 pcs. ( http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?imodule=CT25672BA1339 , based on Micron chips)
OS: Window XP + SP2

Test done:
1. Installed Crucial 2GB x 2pcs on DIMM 0 and 1 and booted with OK result
2. Checked system information under CPU-Z

[stuart]

That's fascinating!  I have since actually returned both the board and the CPU to the supplier (ebuyer.com - who were excellent throughout the entire process, and processed the replacement with a minimum of fuss and no hassle... unlike some other big-name suppliers I've used in the past), because although these components continued to work (albeit with some instability) under Windows, under Linux the APICs failed to initialise and the machine was only able to operate on a single CPU.  This happened with different kernels (which were unchanged, and had previously worked correctly) on both Gentoo and Ubuntu distributions.  In addition, the machine was sometimes powering off an reboot and refusing to come back on until the PSU was physically unplugged, and holding down keys (such as F12 for a boot-menu) during POST would cause the board to lock-up.

I've been away on holiday, and so only last night was able to install the new board and processor into the chassis - and so-far, everything looks good.

I shall report this information back to Crucial (as they have a parts shortage, and so haven't been able to fulfill my original order for 2x2Gb Ballistix Tracer modules) and see how this new board goes with the memory which I originally ordered...

Many thanks for all the effort!

Stuart

[stuart]

Motherboard: MA790FXT-UD5P
Bios version: F7a

One quick question - is firmware release 7a generally available?

The product page http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/BIOS_Model.aspx?ModelName=GA-MA790FXT-UD5P&ProductVersion=rev.%201.0#anchor_os seems have have release 6 as the most recent...

[runn3R]

These RAM modules have been also checked using bios F6 with no problem:



and bios F7a is just the latest beta and is available here

[stuart]

Brilliant - I really appreciate the help with this, and infact have altered my order with Crucial back to DDR3 ECC DIMMs (of the specification  tested here).  I really can't imagine what could have been wrong with my original motherboard (or processor?) for it to fail in such odd and unrelated ways, whilst still appearing to work broadly correctly...

Is there a ChangeLog for the beta BIOS?  It's a tiny thing, but I'm hopeful that Gigabyte will un-hide the option to enable or disable Numlock on boot - with my (numeric keypad-less) IBM Model M Space-Saver keyboard, having Numlock enabled on boot is a real pain!  (The lack of indicator lights don't help, and the entire right-hand side of the keyboard outputs numbers - it makes entering BIOS/boot-loader passwords ... interesting)

[Beekeeper]

why you push so hard for ECC? imho it's good for servers, not desktops. and the price i think must be crazy.

btw i had similiar issue with num lock before with some old gigabyte mobo and solved it by finding this option - you need to press Ctrl + F1 in the main menu of bios , then hidden options will appear.

[stuart]

btw i had similiar issue with num lock before with some old gigabyte mobo and solved it by finding this option - you need to press Ctrl + F1 in the main menu of bios , then hidden options will appear.

Great - thanks.  I'll give this a try this evening

[stuart]

Good news and bad:

On the positive side of things, the new ECC memory appears to work correctly, and I've found the hidden BIOS options.

The bad news is that only firmware revision F5 appears to work with Linux: With either revision F6 or F7a, with kernels 2.6.28 and 2.6.31, with both Ubuntu and Gentoo distributions, the kernel is unable to initialise the on-processor APICs, resulting in a 30 second delay during boot and only a single usable processor core.

Downgrading back to F5 appears to resolve this, but I wonder if there is anything which is not downgraded when this is done (via the Windows @BIOS utility) because after upgrading and downgrading, there are a few (apparently much more minor) errors which weren't there before upgrading from F5 in the first place.

I'll contact Gigabyte support and start a new topic on this subject.

(This also means that, in all likelihood, the processor and motherboard I sent back for replacement were fine, and the errors were BIOS issues.  My initial Crucial ECC memory didn't work with this board/processor combo - but whether the problem was with either of these or the memory itself is an unknown)

[Beekeeper]

glad that you found hidden bios options and solved numlock issue

[stuart]

After performing the BIOS upgrade again using FLASHSPI.exe from DOS, all of these problems has disappeared.  After further testing, all of the hardware & software problems I've encountered seem to be as a result of using the Gigabyte @BIOS tool to perform a BIOS upgrde from (a legitimate, Technet) 64bit Windows 7 installation.  When the upgrade is performed from Windows, these problems return.  Upgrade from DOS, and everything is fine.