Official GIGABYTE Forum

Possible problem with GA-H61N-USB3...

fommof

  • 7
  • 0
Possible problem with GA-H61N-USB3...
« on: July 18, 2012, 09:13:05 am »
Greetings...

I am dealing with very peculiar behavior since i assembled my pc a few months ago with the following specs:

CPU: Intel Celeron G530
Mobo: GA-H61N-USB3
SSD: OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb
HDD: WD Scorpio Blue 500 GB
RAM: Kingston ValueRAM DDR3 1333MHz (2 x 2GB)
Case/PSU: LC-1320mi (75W)

The problem is that sometimes (i haven't found a specific pattern yet but i'd say it's one out of ten times) when i switch on the pc it goes into an infinite loop of switching on and off by itself. It actually never posts, just tries to post, switched off, switches on again, tries to post and so forth.

Now, i have been trying to troubleshoot it for months and here's what has been done so far:

CPU: passes all the stress tests with flying colors and that includes several hours of Prime95 (both 26.6 and 27.x) and Linx AVX so cpu is not a suspect.

RAM: passes all the memtest (not within the windows, running from external dvd-rom etc) for at least 7 hours (i can't recall how many full passes that is but it's a lot), so RAM is out of the question as well.

SSD and HDD: the SSD has the latest firmware but the problem seems to be during the post so these are out of the question too (tried without the HDD too, just in case).

Case/PSU: 75W may seem inadequate but that's not the case. I am monitoring the power consumption using a kill-0-watt  all the time and even when running Linx AVX (which is the most demanding app i have ever used) the consumption stays at the 60W range. If it was a psu issue then it wouldn't have pass hours and hours of stressing the CPU and i would certainly had BSODs during full load. This is not the case, never had any of these probs. Mind that when idling it consumes 24-28W and when playing HD movies about 40-42W and that's the top i see in anything else than running stress apps.

Mobo: and that's the suspect. I have tried almost all the bios firmwares from F2 to F8. No go. I have performed clear CMOS. No go. I have loaded Optimal settings, Fail safe settings and fiddling with almost every bios setting there is in there. No improvement.

Once the pc fires up has no probs staying on and "working" for days (downloading for days, watching movies, browsing and so forth).

Even if it seems it's a low level problem (during the post, NOT after the post, so that means it has nothing to do with the OS) i use Win7 Ultimate 64bit, fully updated and all the drivers are fully updated as well.


So, should i just RMA the board? Are all these enough in order to the RMA be acceptable? Any ideas about what else should i try?

Thanks in advance.

Nick
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 10:19:54 am by fommof »

fommof

  • 7
  • 0
Re: Possible problem with GA-H61N-USB3...
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 07:24:19 am »
Bump for ideas before i RMA the board...

Dark Mantis

  • *
  • 18405
  • 414
  • 10typesofpeopleoneswhoknow binaryandoneswhodont
    • Dark Mantis
Re: Possible problem with GA-H61N-USB3...
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 08:53:18 am »

CPU: Intel Celeron G530
Mobo: GA-H61N-USB3
SSD: OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb
HDD: WD Scorpio Blue 500 GB
RAM: Kingston ValueRAM DDR3 1333MHz (2 x 2GB)
Case/PSU: LC-1320mi (75W)

Case/PSU: 75W may seem inadequate but that's not the case. I am monitoring the power consumption using a kill-0-watt  all the time and even when running Linx AVX (which is the most demanding app i have ever used) the consumption stays at the 60W range.

Once the pc fires up has no probs staying on and "working" for days (downloading for days, watching movies, browsing and so forth).

Even if it seems it's a low level problem (during the post, NOT after the post, so that means it has nothing to do with the OS)
So, should i just RMA the board? Are all these enough in order to the RMA be acceptable? Any ideas about what else should i try?


Hi Nick and welcome.

Even though you seem assured that it is not a power supply issue I would still be incredibly surprised if that is not where your problem lies. Everything points to an under powered scenario. Even Gigabyte recommend a 200W PSU for this motherboard. I would agree that is probably overkill but better to over than under estimate.

Page 22 of the manual ( http://download.gigabyte.eu/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-h61n-usb3_e.pdf )

Quote
To meet expansion requirements, it is recommended that a power supply that can withstand high power consumption be used (200W or greater). If a power supply is used that does not provide the required power, the result can lead to an unstable or unbootable system.

I cannot see any sensible reason for using such a small PSU when the price and running costs are not going to differ substantially. I would recommend swapping the power supply out for a larger one (300W ish) of good quality from a manufacturer like Seasonic, CWT, Enermax, etc.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 10:35:32 am by Dark Mantis »
Gigabyte X58A-UD7
i7 920
Dominators 1600 x6 12GB
6970 2GB
HX850
256GB SSD, Sam 1TB, WDB320GB
Blu-Ray
HAF 932

Gigabyte Z68X-UD5-B3
i7 3770K
Vengeance 1600 16GB
6950 2GB
HCP1200W
Revo Drive x2, 1.5TB WDB RAID0
16x DLRW
StrikeX S7
Full water cooling
3 x 27" Iiy

Re: Possible problem with GA-H61N-USB3...
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2012, 09:44:52 pm »
How small the world is. I am having the same problem. I will try to change the PSU.

Edit: I tried a Corsair 600W PSU and that also does not work.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 10:16:16 pm by nicksti »

Re: Possible problem with GA-H61N-USB3...
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2012, 10:21:29 pm »
Me too. Having the same problem with 600w PSU. This has something to do with the bios.

fommof

  • 7
  • 0
Re: Possible problem with GA-H61N-USB3...
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2012, 07:53:02 am »
First of all thanks for the reply.

Let's go off topic for a moment...

I cannot see any sensible reason for using such a small PSU when the price and running costs are not going to differ substantially. I would recommend swapping the power supply out for a larger one (300W ish) of good quality from a manufacturer like Seasonic, CWT, Enermax, etc.

Well, I can give you 2:

1)Space. If you are not familiar with that specific case please google it. There is no way to fit a "normal" psu in there and if i wanted a full size pc (which i already own anyway, 2600K, GTX580, AX850 and so forth) i would have definitely not gone this route. Space is vital to me.

2)Power consumption. Get a 300W with 80% efficiency and stick it to a pc with average consumption of 25W. Now you have a psu that operates at 10% of it's nominal load. Guess how efficient it is at this level (and calculate how many watts are being consumed by the psu itself). Now do the same for the maximum consumption under the heaviest load, say 55W. Again, we are in the 20% of the nominal wattage territory. Guess again how efficient is the same psu at this level. So again, if i wanted an average pc i wouldn't care about power consumption too much. Still, this pc is for very specific usage like downloading for days etc etc. ;)

Btw, consumption is another reason i don't prefer the latest firmwares. Compared to the F2 they consume 3-4W more at least when idle with no apparent reason (=honestly i can't say the difference between the firmware versions, never had instabilities with F2 or other issues).


Back on topic...

Even though you seem assured that it is not a power supply issue I would still be incredibly surprised if that is not where your problem lies. Everything points to an under powered scenario. Even Gigabyte recommend a 200W PSU for this motherboard. I would agree that is probably overkill but better to over than under estimate.

Page 22 of the manual ( http://download.gigabyte.eu/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-h61n-usb3_e.pdf )

Quote
To meet expansion requirements, it is recommended that a power supply that can withstand high power consumption be used (200W or greater). If a power supply is used that does not provide the required power, the result can lead to an unstable or unbootable system.

Gigabyte's' recommendation could be for the company to get it's back covered because the company doesn't know how exactly you are going to use it (you could stick a G530 or you could stick a 2700K in there, with or without an extra vga, one or more storage devices and so forth). I know that the G530 has a TDP of 65W but in practice that's far from reality if you fine tune your system(=find the optimal Vcore for a specific frequency, see PS1). Furthermore there are plenty of people in the net that have pcs with the same configuration like me (same case+psu, same cpu) and they are fine with it...

These symptoms are only when sometimes (NOT all the time) switching the pc on. I did a little test the other day, running Linx AVX, Furmark and HD Sentinel self test (on the hdd) all at the same time to get the absolute maximum power consumption of my system. Never exceeded the 52W. So is it possible to require more than 52W the moment you are switching it on? The kill-o-watt (while like most of the consumer instruments is a bit "slow" to track peak wattage) has never showed more than 40W (and that's peak, just for a second then it goes back down to the 20ies range) when posting.

I have 25 years of experience with pcs, half of these are professionally. I think i know the symptoms of a cold boot or/and inadequate psu and that's not it.

If it was the psu then i'd either dealing with cold boot symptoms (which is not the case) or i would dealing with several instabilities under full load (reboots, shutdowns and lot's of BSODs especially under heavy stress testing and again, that's not the case).

Now, since everything have been tested or at least have been measured in my system and since this phenomenon didn't bothered me for several months i had a new theory which has nothing to do with the psu, firmware version and so forth.

Troubleshooting took me almost a month (started testing it late July, that's why i didn't post earlier) and i verified that my issue has to do with number of memory sticks/motherboard slots (the memory has been tested several hours via mem86, they are clean and they are in the ram compatibility list for this mobo).

2 sticks of ram will give me these phenomenon at least within the first week (randomly, no patterns found, could be day #1, #5 and so forth).

1 stick of ram and everything runs fine for more than two weeks.

And if anybody thinks it's still the PSU, each stick of ram (Kingston 2Gb running at 1066Mhz) consumes 1-2W.

Also when my pc gets in this infinite "switch on-->no post-->switch off-->switch on" infinite loop, when i finally manage to get it to post properly it reports that some settings in bios have changed (while i haven't changed anything) etc. It's not the battery, that have been tested too.

Anyway, i'll try to RMA the board today.

Thanks again for your reply and for your time. ;)


PS1: keep in mind that my Vcore is set to be 0.840V that's why the consumption is that low. Yes stability has been tested since day 1, multiple runs of 12 hours  Prime95 26.6 (27.7 wasn't around at this time), couple dozens of Linx AVX runs (although the cpu doesn't support AVX), several hours of Prime95 27.7 (couple months ago) etc etc.

PS2: anybody who reports the same probs, please give the full configuration of your pc, report each component otherwise there's no way to anybody to find a link or a pattern.

PS3: to the ones that may doubt about the stability after the Vcore fine tuning. Running Vccre at auto doesn't make things any better or worse, tried that as well.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 08:00:46 am by fommof »

fommof

  • 7
  • 0
Re: Possible problem with GA-H61N-USB3...
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2012, 07:51:28 am »
Time for a little update.

Like i wrote, i RMAed the motherboard. Got the replacement on September 4th, put everything together again (exactly the same hardware and the same way as before), downgraded the firmware to F2 (i have mentioned why in previous posts,this mobo came with F8 btw), set it up like before (i.e. Fixed Vcore to 0.840V etc) and have been testing it for 2 weeks straight.

Everything runs smoothly, absolutely no probs, so actually it WAS a faulty motherboard. Unfortunately the RMA procedure have been done via the store i bought it from (they sent the mobo to the Gigabyte to check if there is a problem and decide if they will give me replacement, got the replacement one week after) so when i asked what was the actual problem (for instance faulty memory slot etc) i got no answer.

But it WAS the motherboard eventually... ;)

Thanks for the help guys... ;)


sekmo

  • 1
  • 0
Re: Possible problem with GA-H61N-USB3...
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 11:48:12 am »
nicksti and TonyNguyen, do you have solved the problem by yourself or did you have to RMA the board?