Just bought GA-P55-US3L; why no standoffs?

[forumjoe]

I've just taken delivery of a Gigabyte GA-P55-US3L. Here are some observations:-

1. There are no standoffs supplied with the board. Is this normal? The last motherboard I bought was quite a few years ago now but I don't recall it being supplied without standoffs. And the size of the mounting holes in the board is well above any I've ever met before. In a spares tin I keep, I've found some standoffs with the correct threads for the case's mounting plate but the standoffs pass almost right through the holes in the board, such is the size of the holes. This is not going to make for rigid, strong attachment of the board to the mounting plate. Should standoffs have been included with the board?

2. The Gigabyte box in which it came was totally unsealed. Again, is this normal? I'd have thought that an easily-damaged product of this kind would come in a box with at least a rudimentary seal on it, or a cellophane jacket on the box. But no, nothing. And all the antistatic bag inside had for a 'seal' was a 1-inch strip pf plain sellotape.

3. The revn. no. of the board is 2.1. Odd, that. It's definitely a GA-P55-US3L, if the legend on the board itself and on the packaging is to be believed. But according to both the UK and Taiwanese websites, the only versions produced of this board have been 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 and 2.3.

 

[Dark Mantis]

Hi

1) The motherboards don't come with standoffs as nowadays the standoffs and other extras come with the case.

2) I found that funny as well that the box wasn't security sealed etc but that does appear to be the norm.

3) I know what you are saying but you are the second person I have heard say that recently. I really don't know the answer to that one.

[forumjoe]

Well, DM, at least you're confirming that all three are nothing unusual. So, in a quirky sort of way, it's reassuring.

Thinking about those standoffs and their sizes compared to the hole sizes in the board, it may actually be an advantage for the board's holes to be bigger, as then there's some leeway in positioning the board against the I/O plate and being able to line up - in this case - all six standoffs. The only trouble is that there's so small a shoulder on each standoff, compared to the board holesize. As a retired engineer, I regard it as mechanically poor. What's needed are a set of standoffs with the same threadsize and standoff distance but with flanged tops, ie. a bigger diameter shoulder. The topmost securing screws should be serrated as well, to prevent them from ever working loose (though separate serrated washers can be used). Same applies to where the base of the standoff meets the board mounting plate. However, these days, it's rare to find this sort of attention to detail.

I do think it's somewhat unprofessional to supply goods of this kind in an unsealed box, and with also such a facile 'seal' on the internal bag. As matters stand at present, it'd be all too easy for an unscrupulous retailer to re-sell as new a previously-handled - and possibly damaged - board.

Yeh, the board version I got was 2.1, which has never been mentioned by either website.

Incidentally, it wasn't until after I'd ordered the board and it was on its way to me that I realised that Gigabyte do a 'D' version of it which has japanese solid capacitors throughout. If I'd realised that in time, I'd have chosen the D version. Gigabyte unfortunately don't mention in the general blurb on the US3L that, although they make use of solid capacitors, on that particular board it's only around the CPU area; the whole lower half of the US3L board uses standard electrolytics. I don't suppose it'll make a great deal of difference, though; the solid types probably have better temperature characteristics.

[Dark Mantis]

Well at least you know now that there is nothing to worry about and can get on with the construction. I do agree with you regarding the engineering principles involved but as you say attention to that sort of detail tends to be a thing of the past, probably our generation.

[forumjoe]

Yesterday, I managed to fit the new CPU and the new cooler and then got the board mounted inside the case. But I later had to remove the board from the case, as I simply couldn't get the graphics card (PCIex16 slot) to fit properly - the standoff positions provided in the case (a Lian Li, would you believe) simply didn't allow this board to sit close enough to the back PCI panel of the case. There was only a couple of millimetres in it, but it made all the difference. In the end, I had no option but to remove the board from the case and elongate the fixing holes in the board wiith a needle file. All of this was done over an earth plane, of course, and with me wearing an earthing lead on my wrist.

I've now managed to get it all back together again but goodness knows if I've damaged any chips or any of the other minute surface-mounted components on the board. I've still some way to go to fire up the beast, including some further purchases.

One other thing I've not found at all good is the I/O plate supplied with this mobo. It's ridiculously thin. Thinner than a razor blade, so much so that it provides no real backstop for those various I/O connections. It's so weak that, when you try to push the board into position to then fix down the board screws, it grossly distorts. This is penny-pinching gone mad. It actually compromises the mechanical integrity of the setup. That's nought out of ten from me, I'm afraid. In order that, in particular, the parallel printer and COM port connections have some reasonable mechanical strength at that I/O plate -this is a US3L mobo, remember - I've used some oversized metal washers behind the hexagonal male connection screws of those two ports, bonding those connectors to the I/O plate. That's considerably improved the situation. Shouldn't have been necessary, though.

This all goes to show that, despite ATX specifications, bringing two or three disparate parts together is, from the mechanical point of view, an act of faith. Tolerances can mount up. You have to be prepared to tweak. That, unfortunately, brings risks with it.

[Dark Mantis]

Well at least you're brave enough to attempt it. Because of course it invalidates any warranty. I would advise you (if you haven't already done so) to make sure you use a high pressure airline to blow any filings off the board so they cant form a  short. As far as the IO cover goes they all seem to be the same now, doesn't matter what make. Anyway keep us informed of your progress please.

[forumjoe]

Yes, I agree, DM. A high pressure airstream of some sort would have been ideal, but unfortunately I didn't have such a thing to hand. Instead, with my mouth, I carefully blew the filed debris away from the fixing points, away from the board (if you see what I mean). As far as I could then tell, there were then no filings left anywhere on the top or bottom surfaces.

As for the warranty, well naturally I've had to forego that. But how else could I have proceeded? A replacement board would have presented exactly the same problem. I can't be certain but I suspect that it was the cases's backplate holes that were slightly out of place. They, of course, are threaded holes, so unless completely different sorts of standoffs are used, they can't be 'adjusted'.

I must say I'm not at all impressed with the aluminium-bodied Lian-Li case I obtained. Aluminium would not be my first choice, as it presents a number of mechanical problems, mainly lack of weight and strength, and electro-incompatibility with steel. But this particular case, the PC-8N, was the only one I could find, after weeks of trawling on the Web, that had the simple looks and features I needed. I'm currently trying to make the best of it.

It'll be some weeks before I'll be in a position to power up for the firsrt time, as I'm still doing various wiring mods (nothing to do with the mobo) and am still in the process of buying hard and optical drives. There's a whole PSU to transplant, as well. But yes, I'll keep you all informed of my progress.

[Dark Mantis]

Well it's nice to find someone else who doesn't like the Lian-Li cases I have never been a fan of them. Anyway good luck with your build.

[forumjoe]

We think alike, DM.

There are clearly others who, contrary to our opinions, acclaim Lian-Li and their aluminium cases, but I'm certainly not one of them. Some of my worst fears have come to pass with the PC-8N. It wouldn't have been so bad if the gauge of the aluminium was reasonable but Lian-Li have unfortunately pared everyrthing on it down to the bone. The floor of the case is peppered with seemingly random holes, as is the front of the case (behind the front cover). Some of the holes on the front are so gaping as to short-circuit the effect of the input fan and the air filter that goes with it. Similar engineering errors have been perpetrated at the back of the case.

Aluminium sweats as well, and most of the outside requires anodising to avoid surface scratching and oxidation. Compared to steel, the metal's soft. It's easy to drill and easy to manufacture with but, in my view, the disadvantages outweight the advantages, by far. There are only two good features of the PC-8N - a removeable top, allowing good access to the PSU, and a cleverly-crafted HDD carrier, which allows the HDD to sit on rubber grommets (by no means unique, though). It's not as if Lian-Li's are cheap, either.

[Dark Mantis]

The same as many companies their products were quite well made at first apart from the already mentioned softness of aluminium as a building material but as you quite rightly pointed out they then started cutting back on the thickness of the sheet and paring off little bits here and there to save money and make more profit. Once more a company who made a name for itself then started trading on that good name whilst producing an inferior product. I am also not a lover of aluminium even when anodised  because it is too soft and easilly scratched.

[forumjoe]

I agree with you 100%, DM. I was never that keen on buying the PC-8N case and, were I starting again, I'd go instead for some other marque, probably a Coolermaster. (Among many others, I'd previously analysed the complete Coolermaster range but had rejected all as unsuited to my particular requirements). I'd definitely buy steel, not aluminium. Steel may be harder to work but it's heavier and stronger. Especially when trying for a quiet PC, you need mass. Among manufacturers of all sorts of PC components, there's now an unfortunate tendency for them to use the absolute minimum amount of materials they think they can get away with. In many cases, that's now resulting in compromised functionality, particularly on the mechanical aspects. I think many manufacturers play on people's inexperience in such things and their general lack of engineering knowhow.

An example on the US3L machine I'm currently building is an extra pair of USB ports (passive ports, working off the US3L mobo) I've installed in one of the spare PCI positions, at the back of the machine; the US3L mobo provides 2 X 2 USB ports for front and rear, beside the normal rear set on the I/O plate. The Lian-Li case came with only the front pair of internal USB leads (incidentally, because of a positioning error on the Lian-Li frontpanel, you can't insert both front USB leads at the same time). So, I had to get a 2-port USB rear carrier from somewhere. That was hard enough in itself but the one I ended up with, costing £5, was (apart from the steel PCI strip itself) made from soft rubber, and of very skeletal construction, at that! This meant that the external USB leads distorted it when pushed in. Also, the screws holding the ports to the strip couldn't be fully tightened, as if you tried to do so, the whole rubber encapsulation would grossly twist. I looked around for a better one but, frankly, they're all like that now (most are made in China). In the days when things were adequately engineered, these USB add-ons consisted of a much harder rubber/plastic and the whole lot was one molded affair. But now, minimum material is the watchword and, in this case, I would say the device is consequently unfit for purpose. Without an alternative, what can you do, though? I've managed to significantly improve the rigidity of the whole thing by partly encapsulating the weak parts of it in epoxy resin. But it doesn't look pretty and I resent having had to do it.

[Dark Mantis]

Without an alternative, what can you do, though? I've managed to significantly improve the rigidity of the whole thing by partly encapsulating the weak parts of it in epoxy resin. But it doesn't look pretty and I resent having had to do it.

My sentiments exactly! More often than not you end up either stripping parts off and then making up  from "proper materials" the end product or forced to do a bodge job to make it strong enough for the use.  As you say when the screws have been used a few times the thread strips off the metal plate as it is so thin. I really do not find this acceptable practice but it seems we don't have any option.

[forumjoe]

I'm now so far advanced in building my completely new machine that it's not worth the hassle ditching the Lian-Li case and getting a much better-designed and manufactured one. Thus far, I've been lucky in not stripping any of the screw threads in the case but, yes, it can so easily happen.

It seems to me that aluminium cases, and Lian-Li's in particular, have been a fad of recent years, but one with no real practical basis. I really wanted a steel case but, like I say, I couldn't find one with the minimalist features I needed, and this PC-8N was the only case of any sort that came near the requirement.

Let this be a warning to PC and system builders - stick with steel as the basic structure of the case!

[Dark Mantis]

And you can always tack weld it if it breaks