Hi Dark Mantis and onemilimeter
Let's keep this thread clean and discuss there only "electrical sound" issue. As it's not the noise due to it's very silent sound, right?
If you want to ask for anything else (like SATA3) you can do it in the appropriate thread or just send PM (the best way as I read all of them).
As it's just impossible for me to read all posts at the forum.
Topic's location?
If that question was aimed at me, I'm afraid I haven't bothered posting a new topic about it, but there is a real problem on my GA-790XTA-UD4 and the only way I can get this rig to run properly is to have everything set to Native IDE. The minute I try installing my OS with AHCI enabled on the Marvell SATA3 channel, I get hangs, and crashes. I have now tried 3 BIOS versions F2, F3 and the F4A beta all with the same results.
I have tried with 4 Gig and 8 Gig of RAM, 2 different CPU's and it really doesn't want to play nicely. Of course, it could be the Hard-drives that are the problem, I am using two Western Digital Caviar Black SATA3 640 Gb drives. I have tried both of these individually and together when trying to install RAID without success. I have replaced SATA cables and reconfigured until the cows come home but, I cannot get SATA3 to run unless in Native IDE Mode. In a process of elimination I have also tried swapping out my graphics card. This shouldn't make a difference to how the SATA 3 handles and surprise....... it didn't. AHCI temperamental and glitchy Native IDE mode rock solid.
Exactly.
IDE fine
AHCI/RAID system unusable
Should state that I am using Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit.
I wait with bated breath !
The sole reason I chose the GA-X58A-UD7 was "sata 3 4x speed via raid 0"
If sata 3 raid 0 on the Marvell is never going to be faster than sata 2 raid 0 on the Ich10
then I have truly wasted my money
on both the board itself and the sata 3 drives I have purchased for my so called "4x speed via raid 0" array.
I PRAY that this is fixable through firmware/bios updates, not a hardware design oversight and also that the rev 1.0 board is supported.
???
My sentiments exactly. I too boght new drives to RAID0 but ended up moving them to the SATA2 ports because it was faster. I now just use the SATA3 Marvell port for my SSD. I think that it's funny that Gigabyte has known about this for so long and yet done nothing about it. They will say that is not the case but I happen to know it is true. To be fair it is not just Gigabyte certain other manufacturers have similar problems and they utilise the Marvel 9128 chop also. I will be very surprised if this is fixable by a software update, I think it is a hardware fault and everyone is just keeping quiet and hoping it will die a death :-\
I think it is a hardware fault and everyone is just keeping quiet and hoping it will die a deathI too am of this opinion, it's a shame but maybe that is the price we are expected to pay for being the first to try these things out.
If I remember correctly Pierre has been trying to check this out but without too much success so far.
QuoteRemember Microsoft Vista? I beta tested that for well over 24 months, before they released a proper working version renamed Windows 7. I didn't get any thanks and was still charged full price for this wonderful replacement OS.Zoom! There goes another one(flying pig of course) ;D
Of course, Gigabyte isn't as big as Microsoft so maybe they will be a little more understanding......... ???
QuoteRemember Microsoft Vista? I beta tested that for well over 24 months, before they released a proper working version renamed Windows 7. I didn't get any thanks and was still charged full price for this wonderful replacement OS.Zoom! There goes another one(flying pig of course) ;D
Of course, Gigabyte isn't as big as Microsoft so maybe they will be a little more understanding......... ???
Actually I have heard that they now have a whole squadron of them. Maybe it was easier to make flying pigs than fix the SATA3 problem
Problem is not with GigaBYte hardware but with the firmware build by Marvell
In conclusion I would have to say that the Marvell chip works quite well with a RAID0 array(data striping) as long as it is only for data transferenceMaybe for you DM but I had the problem of the RAID array being dropped/lost so I wouldn't trust it to handle or store important data and the User's Manual clearly shows how to install the OS onto a RAID Array using the Marvell Chip, so I believe it should be able to do that. It should also be able to deliver the speeds quoted in the advertising but it is actually slower than my SATA2
Maybe for you DM but I had the problem of the RAID array being dropped/lost so I wouldn't trust it to handle or store important data and the User's Manual clearly shows how to install the OS onto a RAID Array using the Marvell Chip, so I believe it should be able to do that.
http://img197.imageshack.us/i/speed003.jpg/ This shows the speed from one of my SATA2 Drives attached to the AMD SB750 Chipset. As you can see this is actually faster than the SATA3
Has anyone relayed the problem to GGTS? What's GGTS response?
Has anyone relayed the problem to GGTS? What's GGTS response?
In the early days of this problem, back in March, it was referred to GTS. Check this thread: http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php/topic,1617.0.html which you, yourself sourced when you started this thread. (check thread 1)
No it can be difficult to keep up with all the different threads. Gigabyte is very wel aware of the problem and is just hoping it will go away if it ignores it, but I for one am not going to pay £260 for a motherboard that was sold primarilly on the SATA3 performance advertised and just let it drop. If necessary legal action wil be taken. >:(
It looks to me that Gigabyte does not seem to put enough effort to solve the problem. Gigabyte should response fast to the problem because the life span of IT product is not long.
I have tested last day RAID0 connected to the 88SE9128 with SATA2 disks Hitachi HFT721010SLA360 with WINdows 7 No problem , i can boot
or your Western Digital Caviar Black SATA3 640 GbI wasn't aware of that little detail!
have you exact reference because many new disks use ' ALIGN option ?
that is a possible problem
solution for WD disks :
Western Digital manufactures desktop edition hard drives and RAID Edition hard drives. Each type of hard drive is designed to work specifically as a stand-alone drive, or in a multi-drive RAID environment.
If you install and use a desktop edition hard drive connected to a RAID controller, the drive may not work correctly. This is caused by the normal error recovery procedure that a desktop edition hard drive uses.
Note: There are a few cases where the manufacturer of the RAID controller have designed their drives to work with specific model Desktop drives. If this is the case you would need to contact the manufacturer of that enclosure for any support on that drive while it is used in a RAID environment.
When an error is found on a desktop edition hard drive, the drive will enter into a deep recovery cycle to attempt to repair the error, recover the data from the problematic area, and then reallocate a dedicated area to replace the problematic area. This process can take up to 2 minutes depending on the severity of the issue. Most RAID controllers allow a very short amount of time for a hard drive to recover from an error. If a hard drive takes too long to complete this process, the drive will be dropped from the RAID array. Most RAID controllers allow from 7 to 15 seconds for error recovery before dropping a hard drive from an array. Western Digital does not recommend installing desktop edition hard drives in an enterprise environment (on a RAID controller).
Western Digital RAID edition hard drives have a feature called TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery) which stops the hard drive from entering into a deep recovery cycle. The hard drive will only spend 7 seconds to attempt to recover. This means that the hard drive will not be dropped from a RAID array. While TLER is designed for RAID environments, a drive with TLER enabled will work with no performance decrease when used in non-RAID environments.
WD Caviar Black drives combine a high performance electronics architecture with a rock solid mechanical architecture to deliver the perfect storage solution for your fully-loaded PC or maxed out gaming machine. Cool drive operation, no-touch head technology, leading-edge vibration protection ensure enhanced reliability.Took this from Scan UK's website it doesn't say that you can use these Drives for a RAID Array but it doesn't say that you can't! ( http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/640GB-Western-Digital-WD6402AAEX-Caviar-Black-SATA-6Gb-s-7200rpm-64MB-Cache )
Just to throw another spanner in the works, when I purchased my Mobo I was impressed by the following image:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img808/1350/img0312a.th.jpg) (http://img808.imageshack.us/i/img0312a.jpg/)
Not sure how others see this but I know how I interpret it!
Just checked at Scan UK for available SATA 6Gb/s HDD's they have only 9 items available. Six standard HDD's and three SSD's.
Here's a link: http://www.scan.co.uk/Shop/Computer-Hardware/All/Hard-Drives-Int/SATA-III
So, in the UK we do seem a bit limited for choice! :-\ And there is no way I could afford or justify the £490 for a single 256 GB SSD!! :o
I have just gone through the list that you posted and there isn't a mention of TLER or not being RAID friendly anywhere.
By setting up a RAID 0 array on the Marvell 9128 Chip using SATA2 HDD's I have managed to get approximately 2X faster speeds and the system, so far, seems to be a very happy bunny. When I can afford to invest in a couple of SSD's I will be looking for 4X speed but until then and with the limitations of Mechanical Hard drives, I will live with the 2X speed that I have now got.
I honestly thought that putting SATA3 6GB/s HDD's onto the SATA3 ports, would result in an overall system improvement....wrong!I would like to say regarding this quote from absic that if there is no improvement by using SATA3 drives or ports what is the point of having them?
By setting up a RAID 0 array on the Marvell 9128 Chip using SATA2 HDD's I have managed to get approximately 2X faster speeds and the system, so far, seems to be a very happy bunny. When I can afford to invest in a couple of SSD's I will be looking for 4X speed but until then and with the limitations of Mechanical Hard drives, I will live with the 2X speed that I have now got.
I think this may be a good opportunity for Gigabyte to prove the capability of their board. Most of the customer may not have enough to buy several SSDs but I think Gigabyte has the budget to do so. Why doesn't Gigabyte perform some tests using SSDs and show us that the advertised 4x is true or is close to truth?
I am afraid that I would have to agree and the fact that Gigabyte did indeed mislead by advertising 4x the speed of SATA2 by using RAID0 SATA3 which is NOT realistic at all is not wholly the issue. It more boils down to being badly sold the Western Digital SATA3 hard drives which are not really suitable for RAID! Although they don't make this fact well publicised. >:( >:( >:(
The big issue here is once again with the way things are being advertised. ....and the old caveat "Buyer beware" springs to mind.
I honestly thought that putting SATA3 6GB/s HDD's onto the SATA3 ports, would result in an overall system improvement....wrong!
If Gigabyte would like to send me a couple of SSD's I would willingly carry out the tests for them! :P
Quite right!QuoteI honestly thought that putting SATA3 6GB/s HDD's onto the SATA3 ports, would result in an overall system improvement....wrong!I would like to say regarding this quote from absic that if there is no improvement by using SATA3 drives or ports what is the point of having them?
I am sure that absic and I would both be more than happy to do the testing for Gigabyte and relay the results to this forum. So if you're reading this runn3R here's your chance.
It is because of this sata 3 marvel issue that has stopped me from buying this board. I have a i7 965 extreme and a set of corsiar dominator 2000 C8 ram. I just need a board and I can't seem to make up my mind with getting the UD7. I would too so much like an answer to these issues. >:(
Newer technology, better able to utilise the SATA3 interface will become available but, in the short term, unless you have bottomless pockets and can afford the High Spec SSD's then don't expect miracles.
On a tip off from a friend I went to the Gigabyte site this morning and guess what I discovered. A little change has been made to the blurb about the capabilities of my motherboard that weren't there before! (http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3263&dl=1#ov)
It now says:
* SATA3 RAID 0 4x performance is a maximum theoretical value. Actual performance may vary by system configuration.
* SATA3 SSDs are not recommended for use in RAID 0 mode on Marvell SE9128 ports.
(...)
Newer technology, better able to utilise the SATA3 interface will become available but, in the short term, unless you have bottomless pockets and can afford the High Spec SSD's then don't expect miracles.
I would like to comment on what absic has just said. According to the new "writing on the wall" even the new SATA3 SSDs won't work properly in RAID0 with the Marvell 9128 controller as configured on the motherboards. I can see no reason why this should be. If this is the case then how does Gigabyte get the advertised 4x SATA2 throughput? I can understand the problem with getting the Western Digital Blacks to work in RAID0 as they do not support TLER but that shouldn't affect the SSDs. I wish Gigabyte would comment on this officially and clear it up.
(...) how does Gigabyte get the advertised 4x SATA2 throughput? (...)
Thank you for your reply.
I have received an answer from my support line.
Could you be so kind to send us test results with HD Tune when you connect them to the sata 3 ports?
- Test 1 Sata 3 drive in sata 3 Connection
- Test 1 Sata 2 Drives in Sata 2 Connection
Please send us a print screen of these results in order to continue investigating the issue for you.
If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further.
Sincerely,
*
GA- X58A-UD5 Bios F6 released ..
http://station-drivers.com/page/gigabyte/ga-x58a-ud5.htm
-Enhance CPU, DDR, PCIex16/x8 compatibility
-USB3.0 chip legacy support
-Enhanced SATA3 RAID mode
Fix SMART Command Fail mit OCZ Sandforce FW 1.11
but not with 88SE9128 version 1.0.0.1025 Marvell firmware !!
Pierre
* some others new BIOS for GigaByte motherboards
http://station-drivers.com/
That firmware in itself isn't very good anyway, the controller still freezes or drops drives (SSD's), nothing Gigabyte will ever be able to do to fix this, it's a Marvell chip issue. The chips just can't handle the speeds drives are now offering.
Hi and welcome to the forum. You are a long way from home though. What brings you to this side of the pond?QuoteThat firmware in itself isn't very good anyway, the controller still freezes or drops drives (SSD's), nothing Gigabyte will ever be able to do to fix this, it's a Marvell chip issue. The chips just can't handle the speeds drives are now offering.
If the Marvell chip is pretty much cr*p then why did Gigabyte decide to put it on the boards anyway? I know there wasn't a lot of choice and I am sure they wanted to rush the product to market as is always the case but to include something that is known to be unsuitable and then extoll it's virtues in the advertising is ludicrus.
I am interested in the UD3R board for my upcoming build. One of the main reasons I chose this is because it has SATA III support, something I want for the Intel G3 SSD I am planning to buy (upon release).
I hope to make a RAID 0 array with two of those, but reading the posts here has me worried. Is a solution to the Marvell problems even possible with a software update?
BTW, what about the AnandTech review of SSD SATA III speeds?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2973/6gbps-sata-performance-amd-890gx-vs-intel-x58-p55/5
It shows the Marvell controller on the GB UD3R board to have great performance. Top in sequential read, and nearly so in others too.
I believe they used it because it was the only solution, and still is. I am not sure if they were aware of the issues at the time or not? Maybe they were and expected a firmware or driver update could fix them, maybe they didn't know at all?
The Marvell is ONLY good at Sequential read/writes with a single drive (And it can struggle with that under heavy load), other than that the Intel ICH10R is much better overall. If you are going to RAID SSD's, the ICH10R will give you the best speeds for everything
(...)
I was following this thread a few weeks back and just remembered to post my thoughts here on the testing I just completed, so hopefully Runn3r can report the RAID BIOS settings issue to GBT HQ.
I believe they used it because it was the only solution, and still is. I am not sure if they were aware of the issues at the time or not? Maybe they were and expected a firmware or driver update could fix them, maybe they didn't know at all? (...)
(...)
I was following this thread a few weeks back and just remembered to post my thoughts here on the testing I just completed, so hopefully Runn3r can report the RAID BIOS settings issue to GBT HQ.
I believe they used it because it was the only solution, and still is. I am not sure if they were aware of the issues at the time or not? Maybe they were and expected a firmware or driver update could fix them, maybe they didn't know at all? (...)
Hi
Welcome to our forum! Could you please provide which SSD model you have tested with? Do you have GA-X58A-UD5? Then I will pass your findings about F6 bios to HQ.
Hi runn3R, any news yet on the reason why it is advised to not run RAIDed SSDs on the SATA3 ports? ???
Hi runn3R, any news yet on the reason why it is advised to not run RAIDed SSDs on the SATA3 ports? ???
Haha really? Because it freezes the chip and or and makes it drop a drive or both, or the controller itself fails and drops out of the hardware list. It may be ok under normal use such as daily browsing, I've only ran benchmarks (Which when you finally do get one to finish without dying, the scores are worse than a single drive on the ICH10R) so not sure how it would act in a normal end user setup - I'd expect it to stutter or freeze at times though when a semi heavy load hits the controller.
I would always buy based on technology itself not specs on a box anyway, as I think most people do, and then either do their own testingas the hardware is generally more expensive over here and most people are not in a position, money wise, to buy to test. They have to rely heavily on the advertising and reviews(which can also be misleading as we all know).
Insert QuoteI don't know about anyone else but I do understand the risks of buying into new tech and before buying any product I do a LOT of research. Unfortunately, with SATA3, the initial feedback from the vast majority of sites was actually very positive especially with regard to Gigabyte boards and the Marvell 9128 Chip, so I bought based upon this and also my trust in Gigabyte. The reality hasn't lived up to the promise and I can, to some degree, accept this. The issue I have, however, is in the slow response when problems have been pointed out. I think this is the biggest annoyance and cause for frustration that is being expressed on the forum. Even a direct yes or no question can take ages to be answered.
Most people purchased it because it was new, or had new tech (SATA 6Gb/s), which always has it's risks. I would always buy based on technology itself not specs on a box anyway, as I think most people do, and then either do their own testing or look at actual reviewers testing before making a purchase
I know your stance from your posts on Tweaktown. Mine is that I own certain Gigabyte products and try and reach a fair viewpoint on each matter as it arises. I do like Gigabyte on the whole (I just moved over from ASUS where I help on their forum) but that doesn't mean that I will just accept what they do because it is Gigabyte. runn3R will be the first to tell you that I am a thorn in their side a times but I also stand up for them when I think it is called for.
The DualBIOS saga is something we have noticed recently where the Backup BIOS isn't kicking in to take over in the event of the Main BIOS becoming corrupted by bad flash or whatever. I asked GGTS for an explanation and they replied that it didn't work if the main BIOS was corrupt. So I ask you what is the point of it?
I agree with you on the noise/motherboard/PSU front to a greater extent. I am sure that it is a combination of factors that causes the noise. I do appreciate you not wanting to name brands for obvious reasons.
I am not sure however that we are in agreement over theQuoteI would always buy based on technology itself not specs on a box anyway, as I think most people do, and then either do their own testingas the hardware is generally more expensive over here and most people are not in a position, money wise, to buy to test. They have to rely on the advertising and reviews(which can also be misleading as we all know).
QuoteInsert QuoteI don't know about anyone else but I do understand the risks of buying into new tech and before buying any product I do a LOT of research. Unfortunately, with SATA3, the initial feedback from the vast majority of sites was actually very positive especially with regard to Gigabyte boards and the Marvell 9128 Chip, so I bought based upon this and also my trust in Gigabyte. The reality hasn't lived up to the promise and I can, to some degree, accept this. The issue I have, however, is in the slow response when problems have been pointed out. I think this is the biggest annoyance and cause for frustration that is being expressed on the forum. Even a direct yes or no question can take ages to be answered.
Most people purchased it because it was new, or had new tech (SATA 6Gb/s), which always has it's risks. I would always buy based on technology itself not specs on a box anyway, as I think most people do, and then either do their own testing or look at actual reviewers testing before making a purchase
I too, am a strong Gigabyte supporter but in no way do I feel constrained by this loyalty, to say when I believe something is amiss and Gigabyte have recently shown that they are unable to respond quickly or adequately enough to their customer's complaints or queries. Why this should be I do not know, unless of course they have grown too quickly and do not have the infrastructure in place to deal with the increased demands on their Technical Support Staff. This UK forum only has one "official" Gigabyte employee and, with the best will in the world, he cannot be expected to handle the increased volume of traffic that this site has seen over the past year or be in a position to answer all of the technical issues raised here.
You can also recover by manually shorting BIOS pins on the MAIN BIOS Chip, 5+6 or 4+7, if you would like further information on how to do that or procedures for each method let me know. I'd rather not post it into a thread so we don't have everyone jumping to use it as their first solution to a problem. I normally PM this information to users as a last resort if they cannot recover via power switch method, or another method using CD drive ONLY (NO Hard Drives) connected to SATAII_0 or IDE Master with motherboard driver CD inserted.
I think the best person we could get to look into this issue would be Adand, but he may not be able to get any answers either and may just end up confirming our thoughts without any solutions. I do not think this can be solved due to the chip used, maybe it's possible but I doubt it as if it was someone would have already corrected it IE Marvell or X Motherboard manufacturer - I just don't see anything that can be done
I doubt an official statement will ever be made, I was surprised to see the website revisions mentioned previously. The Marvell chip is still the only SATA 6Gb/s solution so it will continue to be used until something better comes along.
Most people purchased it because it was new, or had new tech (SATA 6Gb/s), which always has it's risks. I would always buy based on technology itself not specs on a box anyway, as I think most people do, and then either do their own testing or look at actual reviewers testing before making a purchase.
You should be able to create a RAID on the Marvell ports if you want to test yourself, but speeds are terrible and the controller will drop drives from the array.
But you can create one easily, maybe you just needed to update your BIOS first? I'd suggest not using those ports for RAID anyway, you can see my full review of controllers and C300 drives here if you want to get a better idea of how things perform on a Gigabyte board.
http://forums.tweaktown.com/storage-devices-methods/41812-crucial-realssd-c300-128gb-single-vs-raid-w-marvell-ich10r-hpt-rr-640-review.html