Official GIGABYTE Forum
Questions about GIGABYTE products => Motherboards with Intel processors => Topic started by: boglav on November 02, 2010, 06:18:10 pm
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To keep it simple: on 2 Gigabyte mobos running an I5 760 I got the same issue: after a random period of time, the CPU sensor on the motherboard gets "stuck" to an erroneus value (-35 to 0 degrees Celsius, read in BIOS). This causes the CPU FAN (which is set to auto in BIOS) to drop to the minimal RPM (~250 in my case on a Scythe Katana 3) thus producing a sensible increase of the CPU temp (the 4 cores reach up to 70 degrees under stress such as PRIME95). The core temps are read OK while this happens. Even after a system restart the issue persists, the only solution is to shut down the system, wait for a period of time and then restart.
After a research on Google I found similar posts about the problem:
http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/38345-ga-p55a-ud3-negative-cpu-temperature.html (http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/38345-ga-p55a-ud3-negative-cpu-temperature.html)
http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherboards/664005-broken-thermal-sensor-gigabyte-p55-usb3.html (http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherboards/664005-broken-thermal-sensor-gigabyte-p55-usb3.html)
The issue appeared first on a GA-P55-USB3 (bios F8) which I replaced with a GA-P55a-UD3 (BIOS F9). Using the same configuration with an basic Intel H55 motherboard, no such problems issued.
Is there a solution for this issue besides setting the CPU fan to max RPM in BIOS (mine is very lous at 2700 RPM) or using a fan controlling SW? Are there any plans to fix this of future BIOS updates?
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It definitely seems like a BIOS issue so I would advise you to make sure that GGTS know about it and ask for a fix. There is obviously a problem with how the temps are being reported.
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I just made a report to GGTS. I am intrigued though why there are such few reports on this problem. Am I just unlucky to get the same issue on 2 different mobos?
For testing resons I disabled C3/C6 state function in BIOS which is reported to be a fix for the short beeps/chirps emitted by this familiy of mobos. I used to get them with the USB3 version, the UD3 seems to be OK as far as that goes. Hopefully it might be a solution for the sensor issue as well. I will report on the problem later on.
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To be honest there haven't been many reports of this problem on the forum at all. Maybe it would help if you could list all your hardware and we might be able to see some relationship between it and the trouble. :-\
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CPU Intel I5 760 2.80GHz + Cooler Scythe Katana 3
MOBO Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3
Kingston Hyperx DDR3 2x 2GB 1333 CL7 9KHX1333C7D3K2/4GX)
HDD WD 640 GB WD6400 AAKS
Gygabyte Geforce 460 GTX OC 1 Gb 256 bit
PSU Seasonic 520W S12II-520
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Wel the only thing that I would query is the PSU. It is good quality but a little underpowered. I think it would be worth your while to see if you can get a good quality single 12V rail PSU of 650W + just to try. I know the theory of it all says that it should be enough but you would be suprised how many times we find this is the fault. In the motherboard manual it quotes 550W minimum for this board.
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Unfortunately cannot get a better PSU for testing since most of my friends own laptops and/or weaker PSU's and it's out of the question to buy another one, because this system was a big financial investment as it is.
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No I do understand your problem, all this equiptment doesn't come cheap. I just wondered if there was a local computer shop that would let you try one if they thought they might get a sale out of it. :-\
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Its fine evga say 450W minimum (of course that would need to be a good PSU) 520W is fine.
http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=01G-P3-1365-TR&family=GeForce 400 Series Family&sw=
And with a less powerful card you need 550W no of course you don't its just Gigabyte covering their backs and for what to prove that their was nothing wrong with the PSU in the first place.
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Just found another guy with an identical problem on Gigabyte ex38-ds5 (BIOS reporting -88 degrees).
I'd take all other factors out of the question - it seems to be a Gigabyte problem or rather Gigabyte/Intel problem, just like the one with the short chirps/beeps, unless C3/C6 State is disabled in BIOS! I'm currently testing the same fix for this problem, hopefully it will work.
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I don't know what you're moaning about people spend a fortune trying to get below freezing tempertures like that in their machines ;D ;D ;D
Only joking!
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Funny, that was my first thought also ;)
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Just a shame it's not real ;) You could do some major overclocking with temperatures like that.
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I know this should sound weird, but can this problem be related to the building power source? I couldn't reproduce the issue at the shop where I bought the computer, and believe me we tried. Also it is not related to CPU load, in most cases in happened while browsing, etc. Just a thought..
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Yes it's quite possible. What is your local mains power supply like there? Is it stable and clean? I used to live in Bulgaria and I know what some of these power supplies are like (even when they are on) :-\ I always used to run my system through a big UPS and still do.
Just another thought, if it happens when you are browsing have you tried disconnecting the modem/router from the computer?
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Browsing was an example..it happened also while listening to music on kmplayer, etc.
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Have you tried running DPC Latency Checker to make sure you don't have a problem with that.
DPC Latency Checker http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
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I dd the test. It's all green and yellow, max value 1997 us. I have no idea how that's related.
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Ideally it should all be green, so it might be worth investigating further. I would also run it for a long time and see if it gets any worse especially when you have the problems. This is not related to your temp sensor problem but is a seperate problem to do with the short chirps/beeps.
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The DPC latency check had a consistent graph ( I watched for several minutes), with a green range, followed by a yellow spike, and so on. All the spikes were about the same value~2000. Ran it on my laptop and the results were totally different, all green, no spikes. Can you explain what could be the source of this?
Against my better judgement :) I flashed the latest BIOS (F11) with the following results:
With C3/C6 state enabled, in Windows ET6 and HWInfo read an idle CPU temp of 17 degrees, about 20 degrees less than the core temp(~36) and the fan is set at ~500 RPM.
With C3/C6 disabled, the temp is read at ~26 degrees, so core temp -10 and RPM is set at ~800. I had the exact same results with the prevoius MoBo (USB3) with an equivalent Bios date release (F8).
With the original Bios of the UD3 board (F9), both with C3/C6 state enabled/disabled the temps were read at core temp -10 (~26 degrees).
It is clear that the C3/C6 state triggers some weird issues on my system for various reasons. For the moment I keep it disabled on the latest bios version and hope for the best (so far, I didn't encounter the problem with this setting). I will most definitely report my finds for anyone facing this problem.
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Yes it definitely is weird but I am sure it is down to a badly written BIOS.
As far as the latency goes it is not huge but there obviously is some problem there that is causing it to raise form the normal level. Finding the source of it could be more difficult. The thing is is can be hardware or software that causes it. More usually software as it is normally caused by the badly written code of a driver or something similar that doesn't accesss the core in the proper manner.
You can try going into Device Manager and disabling anything that isnt needed for the system to run. Then enable one at a time checkeing always to see if it has an effect on the latency.
Failing that you can do likewise with Processes in Task Manager.
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Badly written by Gigabyte , I presume.
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Yes, I'm afraid so. Gigabyte write all their own BIOSes the same as other motherboard manufacturers.
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LOL I knew that..it was just a language confusion because in my native language we refer sometimes to "flashing" a BIOS as "writing it", and for a moment I believed you suggested it was a bad BIOS flash. :)
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Oh no. ;) It can be confusing at times with the different languages. It' suprising that there are not more errors really. ;D
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Well, after some e-mail ping-pong with GGTS i informed them about the problem and they sent me their latest BIOS (F13b - beta) for testing. However, since I didn't encounter the problem anymore with the latest official BIOS (F11) and C3/C6 state disabled, I'm not gonna do the update until it gets official.
I made this post to inform everybody that IMO disabling C3/C6 state could be a solution for anyone who encounters this problem, and also someone reported on another thread that he got the same issue after a Bios update and solved it by clearing CMOS and loading optimized defaults.
It is good to know that Gigabyte is still updating the BIOS for this board (I still have a problem with my Razer Abyssus mouse that isn't detected correctly sometimes - buttons work but no movement - until I shutdown and unplug the system). If anyone is interested (for various reasons) to test the latest beta BIOS Gigabyte provided for my problem, I can send it via mail or post an upload link here, if it's not against any policy.
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To keep it simple: on 2 Gigabyte mobos running an I5 760 I got the same issue: after a random period of time, the CPU sensor on the motherboard gets "stuck" to an erroneus value (-35 to 0 degrees Celsius, read in BIOS). This causes the CPU FAN (which is set to auto in BIOS) to drop to the minimal RPM...
I have the same problem on Gigabyte P55A-UD3. After a long reliable use (6 months) has twice changed the CPU temperature in BIOS on the negative - 20 ° C. An automatic reduction of the minimum fan speed and CPU load. After switching off and turning on the PC shows the temperature well again. I'm afraid it will destroy the CPU overheating, because the BIOS controls the speed of the CPU fans with nonsensical temperature values. Has anyone found a solution to the problem?
Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3 (rev.1.0) bios F4
Intel Core i5-750 BOX
Gigabyte GTX460 1GB DDR5 GV-N460OC-1GI
Kingston 4GB ( kit 2x 2GB ) 1333MHz
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium CZ 64bit
Samsung SpinPoint F3 3.5" 1TB HD103SJ
Seasonic SS-500ET-F3 500W Bronze
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Hi
It might also be worth taking out a ticket with GGTS because that way they will know there is still a problem and they also might be able to help you fix it.
You can contact them here:
Just enter your email address and click on the language of choice.
GGTS http://ggts.gigabyte.com/
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Boglav, DM,
This is by no means an isolated problem! It's not confined to the P55-USB3 and the P55-UD3, because I get this happening with my P55-US3L. The reported CPU temperature starts off as something quite sensible but then after a random period it starts showing figures like +3 degrees C, 0 degrees C, -20 degrees C.
As you know, DM, I have even worse problems with my board, but I nonetheless reported this particular one to GGTS several weeks ago as an aside to the others. They made no comment on it whatever and I've had no feedback from them at all on it.
I myself found that experimenting with the power-reducing settings of C1E, C3/C6/C7, EIST, or turning off the CPU temperature monitoring had absolutely no affect on this. This may differ from board model to board model, though.
So, boglav, you've been somewhat wasting your time, looking for a cause elsewhere. It's pretty obvious that this is a BIOS fault, or at least highly related to the BIOS. It's as plain as the nose on your face. And I guess that what's happened - and this must have taken place a good while ago - is that Gigabyte have taken a core BIOS and applied it across a range of P55s. Thus, due to odd differences in the BIOSs, the temperature-reporting error pops up on only certain of those models.
I get the impression that GGTS are in denial about it. I suspect they find it highly embarrassing, given that they've made a bit of a mess of adapting the core BIOS to individual boards. But the lack of any purely software-based solution from Gigabyte suggests it might be down to a defective temperature sensor that they've used on the board, and perhaps no amount of tweaking of the BIOS can correct it. If so, then for obvious reasons there won't be a solution forthcoming.
The only sensible workaround is to forget about meddling with those power-saving settings and instead fit manually-driven fan controllers in the PC. At least you'll then be assured that the CPU fan will always be running at the revs at which you set it, irrespective of what the BIOS reckons the CPU core temperature is.
Gigabyte may well have taken a cautious and piece-meal approach to initially finding a solution via the BIOS. But even if a BIOS update were to work, Gigabyte would need to be systematic in updating other BIOSs for the other boards that are known to be affected. Thus far, there's no evidence that they're doing this.
BTW, I'm fairly certain I mentioned this happening with my own board several weeks ago in these forums.
You're not alone in this, boglav. You haven't been imagining it!
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forumjoe, I would suggest following up your original query with GGTS as sometimes things do go astray there and often a second email can get an answer. Certainly worth a try.
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I wrote to GGTS yesterday. Waiting for reply.
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Okay, I'll give it a go.
Do bear in mind that my theory about it being caused by a faulty or poorly-chosen sensor is only that - it's a theory. And perhaps "sensor" is the wrong word. What I mean by that is that, if we assume that the CPU itself has a built-in temperature sensor, then it's also just as likely that one or more of those tiny surface-mounted components underneath or to the side of the CPU is a pull-up resistor involved in passing the CPU's temperature level to the BIOS chip. Being of CMOS technology, the BIOS array will undoubtedly connect with high-impedance signals on the board, some of which might require pull-up resistors. But if one of those resistors is faulty or hasn't been successfully soldered in on the board during the solder-flow manufacturing process, the resultant connection into the BIOS chip would flap around, voltage-wise. One possibility is that the solder joint is good when the PC is first switched on but then becomes bad as the nearby CPU heats up. Or it could be due to a faulty or badly-chosen temperature coefficient for the resistor. Either way, with the signal from the CPU flapping around, the poor old BIOS would have a devil of a job then interpreting the input.
I think someone in these forums summised at one stage that this problem was due to a design error with the CPU itself and that there were already murmurings in the Intel camp to that effect. However, I think that that can now be dispelled. There has been a problem with certain Intel CPUs manufactured since about last Summer, and indeed Intel themselves have now published an explanation of this on the Web (I found it yesterday in the news bulletin section at Gigabyte's homepage), but that particular problem is one that affects IDE transfers and has nothing to do with temperature-sensing. It affects only a very limited number of Intel CPUs. Intel have admitted that users with that particular problem will need to return the CPU chip, for replacement. In the meantime, it's important that nobody should confuse the Intel announcememt with the "wrongly-reported CPU temperature" problem that we P55 users are experiencing.
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I've now written to GGTS about this, carefully explaining it all.
I must say I'm not very hopeful, as I've found that, generally, the responses from GGTS have been slow and totally unhelpful. They seem to find it impossible to ever comprehend the problem, despite the extreme lengths I go to in order to carefully explain it. And I don't mean just THIS issue, I mean all the OTHER issues I'm having with my particular board. Sometimes, I wonder if they do it deliberately. They really do wind me up. They don't even confirm whether the checksum values I've noted when flashing different BIOSs agree with theirs. When such basic bug-tracing is ignored by them, it makes you wonder what the purpose of GGTS really is.
Anyway, they can't really ignore this "misreported CPU temperature" thing now. There are a growing number of people who've now told them about it and we're all using slightly different boards. It most certainly is BIOS-related.
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Today, the answer came from GGTS.
At first, we recommend you chekcing H/W installation status. The cooler must be installed on the CPU surface tightly. Then, if there is any thermal glue or plastic membrane on the CPU cooler, please remove it. After that, please kindly apply a thin layer of thermal grease/compound on the surface of CPU die for better heat dissipation then check again later.
In addition, please try to disalbe SMART fan in BIOS to let CPU fan spins at full mode.
:-\
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I can understand where they are coming from however I would have thought it was obvious that it isn't a straight overheat problem.
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I'm afraid that's fairly typical of the kind of eventual response you get from GGTS, ie, stating the downright obvious! It doesn't seem to occur to GGTS that someone who has the slkills to build a PC from scratch would know the technique for properly fitting the CPU's heatsink. Personally, I think it's very insulting of GGTS. In any event, they should have had quite a number of identical reports in of this problem by now. It's most certainly nothing to do with how bumper has fitted his heatsink, it's a board problem! It's definitely and irrefutably BIOS-related. It's simply ludicrous in the extreme for GGTS to continue claiming that the board isn't the problem.
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As previously stated, I have disabled the C3/C6 state function in BIOS, and I haven't encountered the "sensor" problem since (+4 months). All other settings are default/auto. I monitor my temps from time to time, and I believe I would have spotted if the problem had arisen again (certainly, I cannot state 100% that this is the best solution).
I would also try to disable CPU overheat warning in BIOS (can't recall the exact name of that function). It works ok this way, with no annoying random beeps (the other issue that seems to be plaguing the P55 boards).
To be on the safe side, I also replaced my cooler with a Mugen 2 rev. B, which has an enormous heatsink that can cope with my I5 even fanless and is quiet even at max RPM (~1300 rotations) at stock settings.
To be on the safe side, especially with OC or a 24/7 working system, I would reccomend getting a good cooler, with an efficient heatsink (like the Megahalems) and a set of quiet fans for a push-pull config, and disable the automatic fan rotation setting (or use some SW to set a custom value that suits your needs).
GGTS also sent me a beta bios to test (v13 beta something), but I'm not playing lab rat for them, especially since they haven't acknowledged the problem yet, and less likely solved it.
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Boglav,
When I first encountered the misreported CPU temperature bug, I played around extensively with the C3/C6/C7 function in my BIOS but found that it didn't make a jot of difference. I think that you and a few others have simply been lucky with your own BIOSs in that regard. Very early on, I also tried playing with CPU Thermal Monitor in that same section of the BIOS, and also with CPU Warning Temperature in PC Health, but again to no avail.
My new PC is in no way geared to gaming or overclocking, as it's used for very serious work instead. The graphics card I use consumes only 30W, even at peak (confirmed with the manufacturer). I constructed the entire machine to be as quiet in operation as possible and so I use specially-selected push-pull fans, together with an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev 2 that itself incorporates a fan (highly recommended cooler). The entire arrangement runs extremely cool, confirmed by me feeling the finned heatsink with my fingers, and I'm able to run all three fans at around 850 rpm. The CPU temperature, as reported by the BIOS, starts off at around +24 degrees C, then after, say, 10 mins reaches around +28 degrees C. I'd say that's probably about right. But after 30 mins or so, the reported temperature starts going wild, with anything from +20 to -20 being the norm.
I've been building my own PCs for some 15 years or so and am a retired IT engineer, so GGTS cannot accuse me of ignorance or negligence when assembling the CPU, etc. Earlier in the build, I quickly realised that there were some annoying limitations in the onboard fan control, so I ignored Smart Fan Control and the second Sys Fan header and instead incorporated my own manually-controllable fanspeed devices.
I think that probably what's happened here is that a common core BIOS has been used across the P55s and that this error has crept in and it affects different models in slightly different ways. That's to say, the C3/C6/C7 setting will correct the problem on one model but not on another. Put another way, I doubt very much whether your BIOS is exactly the same as mine.
It could still be down to a common hardware manufacturing fault on the board but it remains the case that it's the BIOS that's misinterpreting the data it's being fed. So, in my view, there's no question that it's BIOS-related.
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This board is so weird..for example if I switch the cpu fan setting from auto to pwm, my razer mouse stops working (just the tracking, the buttons work fine). I have to umplug the system until all power is out (the lights on the mouse turn off) to make it work again.
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Gremlins! :o
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Boglav,
I've just looked again at your screenshot of PC Health and it strikes me that not only is your CPU core voltage on the high side but also your RAM voltage is very high. For instance, my understanding is that DDR3 can withstand up to 1.65v but not more than that, really. Do you not think that you're pushing your CPU and RAM rather too much? Have you tried adjusting the CPU's core voltage and the RAM's voltage downward, to see if that affects your observed problems at all? I know that some brands of DDR3 can tolerate over-volting better than others but I'd personally be alarmed if I ever let my own DDR3 be powered on as quite a high voltage as your BIOS is reporting, namely 1.68v.
Actually, that said, I think you'll find that the BIOS's measurements of voltage and frequency aren't terribly accurate. So, it may be better to check out your various supply voltages at the board's power connector with a digital meter. Do this with extreme care, though; you need to know exactly what you're doing, and the risks involved.
Something else that you, DM, and others will find interesting is that, although earlier I told GGTS that C3/C6/C7 has no affect on the misreported CPU temperature on my particular board, it now transpires that I was wrong about that. I've now discovered that, on mine, it does depend on C3/C6/C7. I'll now have to inform GGTS.
By experiment, I've found that the misreporting starts to happen at a particular CPU core voltage. Although I don't normally attempt to push my CPU voltage at all, I can now appreciate that the whacky CPU temperatures start to get reported at a certain voltage, and then as I raise that voltage further, still well below the CPU's specification for maximum voltage (and cause the CPU to consume more power), the reported temperatures become even more negative. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it, but it also appears to make my PC slightly more unstable, and the random FDD accesses occur more often. By the time that my BIOS is telling me that the voltage is set to about 1.180v, the reported CPU temperature is already negative.
From research I did some time ago at Intel's site, my i5-650 can operate at anywhere between 0.65v and 1.40v, with 1.20v being the nominal value. Obviously, as you go down from 1.20v, the frequency of operation will drop off and also the current taken by the CPU will drop. The opposite happens when you start going above 1.20v. The current will change markedly either side of the nominal voltage, so the amount of power consumed by the chip will quickly increase or decrease.
So right, I would agree now that C3/C6/C7 is a factor in this, not just in some P55 boards but also in mine (P55-US3L). Also, it's apparent that as the CPU core voltage increases, so the CPU temperature decreases (the opposite to what you'd normally expect). But it looks like the voltage has to go above a certain breakpoint before the whacky temperatures start to be reported.
Unfortunately, it's not at all easy to say exactly what that breakpoint voltage is, as the BIOS is so inaccurate.
You know, so very much depends on the BIOS. Not only should a BIOS enable an operating system to see the basic system components and the resources but it ought also to measure fairly accurately the things that need monitoring. Clearly, in our cases, our BIOSs aren't doing these two things at all well.
I note that the USB3L, UD3, and now my US3L all use the same basic drivers.
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As far as DDR voltage is involved, I'm pretty sure I'm on the safe side. As a matter of fact, it's a XMP profile from my ram (Kingston HyperX 1333 CL7, 1.65 v) that besides increasing the RAM voltage, also ups the QPI/VTT value accordingly (1.21 v). The CPU voltage is set to auto in BIOS, I tried lowering it but it resulted in an unstable system.
Since the systems works OK atm, I'm done tweaking and testing it. Of course, should I discover anything worth telling about as far as the issue at hand is concerned, I'll promptly report it over here.
On another note, I also watched the date of Bios release for several types of P55 boards. All of them are released on the same day, which makes me think we're talking basically about the same version with minor model-specific tweaks.
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Boglav,
For what it's worth, I've now reported my findings to GGTS and have uploaded a photo to them of the PC Health screen in the BIOS, showing a whacky CPU temperature of -11 degrees C.
One thing that's very noticeable is that the BIOS cannot read or interpret the voltage and temperature data at all accurately enough. In fact, for the same parameter, you see different values in different parts of the BIOS. The differences between them are greater than, for example, the increments by which you can adjust Vcore. So it means that you can never really know the true value to which you're setting any one parameter.
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Boglav et al,
I've now had some feedback from Gigabyte on this CPU temperature issue. Judging by a photo they've supplied in the response, they've set up their own US3L but cannot reproduce the problem (If a had a pound for every computer company that told me that sort of thing, I'd be a very rich man indeed!). They've used the same CPU, board and BIOS version as mine. I've noticed, though, that they've used the built-in Smart Fan Control, which I'm not. Well, what can you do? They're of the view that this problem is non-existent. But US3Ls suffer from it, UD3s suffer from it, and USB3s suffer from it. Maybe more. Some of us have even uploaded photos of it, showing the negative temperatures, so it's crazy for Gigabyte to say that there's no problem there.
This is by no means the only problem I have with my US3L, and one other important one is that I get constant HDD accesses and also occasional random FDD accesses. I can see the HDD accesses happening by way of the HDD Activity LED on my PC case and can hear the corresponding constant bump-bumping of the HDD. The Gigabyte techie said this was due to the CD/DVD drives being enabled; if I disabled the CD/DVD drives, it'd go away. Well, I tried that in Device Manager and it's true - if you disable both optical drives, the constant flashing Activity LED all but stops. He referred me to an old Web forum on the issue. The trouble is that disabling your optical drives is hardly a feasible solution, is it?! And nobody in that old forum had a permanent solution for it. Here's the link he gave me:
http://social.technet.microsoft.com:80/Forums/en/w7itprohardware/thread/4f6f63b3-4b58-4154-9298-1566100f9d00
I've now come across this:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967715
and Microsoft are offering a fix for KB967715 on the WU website but, as far as I can see, the fix is to prevent Autorun, which is NOT what most of us want. And I don't think this is anything that affects the HDD accessing issue.
The techie couldn't explain why one of my optical drives can't be set to DMA mode; it's permanently greyed out in PIO. Gigabyte have tested with some different drives and found no problem with DMA/PIO settings in Device Manager. I suspect that the constant HDD accesses, PIO problem, etc are linked in some way. And this still doesn't explain why SeaTools cannot even see my HDD! I still maintain that there are faults in the BIOS. But getting Gigabyte to look carefully at the software of the BIOS seems to be beyond the hope of any mortal being. As far as they're concerned, if they can't reproduce the problem, the problem cannot exist!
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There is none so blind as them that won't see! :-\
I agree that it is a stupid idea that just because you can't reproduce something it can't exist and the BIOS writers need to start looking at how this could happen and see if they can come up with a way to stop it. After all that is all we do on the forum as we can't reproduce the faults but we try and look at what circumstances could bring about that condition and then find a way to cure it.
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Errh, DM, yes we CAN reproduce the faults. At least, with those of us who've personally met the CPU temperature problem, we've certainly been able to turn the misread CPU temperature on and off. So, we know that one or more BIOS settings has an influence on this. We've even been able to provide photos of the whacky temperatures, temperatures that quite clearly cannot ever normally arise. I can only summise that the Gigabyte techie either simply hasn't left the PC on for long enough or performed his test with C3/C6/C7 turned off. I personally found that if I set the Vcore immediately to a fairly high level, then irrespective of C3/C6/C7, the reported CPU temperature was sensible, no matter how long you then waited. However, if I started with a low Vcore and then gradually raised it, and also left enough time, the crazy temperature resulted. So, something quite subtle appears to be going on. I told the techie precisely this but I've a feeling he didn't test in quite that way.
As for my PIO problem, I think I may finally have found a lead on the Web, suggesting that possibly the effected optical drive is faulty. Apparently, if a CD/DVD drive is so bad that it repeatedly gives multiple read errors, then Windows automatically drops the drive's original DMA mode downward. If it's really SO bad, it'll drop it right down in speed to PIO mode and it'll stay there. So, it may well transpire that that particular problem is due to a faulty drive. I'm annoyed about that, as it's a brand new optical drive. Obviously, I'll now do some more testing on it. When I first installed WinXP on the new PC, I used the other optical drive, but when I started installing the soundcard driver and then various apps, I just happened to use the second optical drive instead. Therefore, if it IS faulty, then perhaps some of the software I've installed is corrupted. My only recourse may be to get a replacement drive and then reinstall everything from scratch. It's conceivable that this is also linked in some way with the constant HDD accesses problem. However, it wouldn't explain the random FDD accesses.
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Hmm, well, I've now experimented somewhat with both of the optical drives - physically disconnecting them, setting each to None in the BIOS, and also setting the Transfser mode to None in Device Manager. Not only are the constant HDD accesses still there (and the LED still constantly flashing) but also that particular optical drive is still stuck in PIO mode when reinstated! So, in my view, that Technet forum (the discussion was a year ago) got it totally wrong. Well, let's face it, it'd be completely barmy to expect a HDD accessing problem to be solved by having to permanently disable the optical drive, wouldn't it?! This just shows you how careful you have to be when searching for solutions to bugs and of not being over-confident.
As for the CPU temperature issue, one other possibility I've been toying with is that it may be a function of the pressure with which the CPU heatsink is mated with the CPU. CPU coolers other than the stock Intel one tend to be more columnar and this means that when the PC is standing in its normal position there's a considerable turning moment exerted around the mating point of the cooler and the CPU, resulting in a droop of the cooler. There's therefore a temptation to tighten down the cooler to make it fit square. This must put a considerable mechanical distorting pressure on the zone of the motherboard that's in and around the CPU socket. Having seen how small the matrix of connection lands were, underneath the CPU chip, when fitting the CPU, I can well imagine that it'd take very little movement to create a disconnect on one of those lands. So, one possibility is that one or more of these connections between the CPU and the socket start off from cold as okay but then, as the CPU heats up and everything in that area expands, it goes open-circuit, aided in this by the distorting pressure on the socket and surrounding zone of board. So, as a consequence, either the CPU obtains a daft temperature value from a sensor directly underneath the CPU chip (a temperature-dependent resistor), or an output from the CPU, going across the board to the BIOS chip, goes open-circuit. ........................ Clutching at straws, here, I have to admit.
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Forumjoe
Yes I know you can see the fault no problem and I am sure reproduce it at will. I was saying the GGTS can't or at least are not trying to. :-\
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From the photos they're sending ME, they're KINDA trying. But I reckon they're just not spending enough time on it and experimenting enough.
Re the 'stuck PIO' problem I've had, where the SATA optical drive has got stuck in that mode rather than UDMA, I think I'm now getting somewhere. I completely uninstalled the controller on the 1st Secondary IDE channel on which it was connected, then rebooted. The drive is now showing in Device Manager as UDMA2. But I suspect it'll revert to PIO when next used. I gather that some brands of drive are sensitive to the precise IDE channel on which they're connected, so I've contacted the manufacturer for advice, in case it's relevant here.
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Yes the more info you can get on the particular hardware devices the better.
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GGTS have now given me their final word on this misreported CPU temperature issue - they can't reproduce the problem, so therefore the problem doesn't exist!
This is a ludicrous attitude for them to strike, particularly as several of us with different P55s have sent them photos of the crazy temperature values in the BIOS. GGTS's conclusion defies all human logic.
I suspect that the reason for this is that they've realised that they'll only reproduce the problem if they spend more time investigating it, and with all the other bug reports on their various mobos flooding in from all over the world, I guess they need to give those other issues some attention instead. Let's face it, it takes time to set up a PC with a particular CPU, particular memory, etc. Frankly, I wish that they'd not spent as much time on the hardware with this particular issue and instead went straight to investigating the BIOS software instead, as the problem is most defintely BIOS-related. The sheer fact that we're able to turn the misreporting on and off using the BIOS's C3/C6/C7 setting is evidence of that.
It's very noticeable that GGTS avoids actually getting into any sort of discussion with you. They won't even answer very straightforward questions, like 'Is the Microsoft UAA driver required only for onboard sound?' Or, 'Here's the sumcheck value of the newly-flashed BIOS - is it correct?' Instead, they simply take your reported symptoms and try to reproduce them. The lack of any discussion is a huge barrier to solving problems, but it might simply be that they feel that time is better spent elsewhere.
As for the other problems I've been having with my new PC, well, they can be summarised thus:
1) Random FDD accesses.
2) Constant HDD accessing (no HDD idle periods).
3) Permanent PIO mode of one optical drive.
4) Highly-distorted third-party sound (but not always).
At first, I thought that these were also due to either a bad BIOS or a bad mobo driver but I'm not so sure now. I've made some headway with Problem 3, in that I appear to have cured it by uninstalling the controller of the affected optical drive in Device Manager and then rebooting. Mind you, a stuck PIO mode is usually a sign that the OS has detected many read errors from the drive, so I'm not holding my breath over it just yet. It might just be that that nice new drive is faulty.
1 and 2 remain unsolved.
2 could be due to a faulty HDD but that can now only be verified by sending it back to the manufacturer and getting a replacement. The reader will realise the loss of software and data involved, to say nothing of the time required to do it all and to return the PC to normal later on, so I'm reluctant to proceed without more compelling evidence.
The distorted sound happens only about 50% of the time, in that sometimes when I run a music file the sound is fine, right from the outset, but then if I stop the file running and re-run it later, it'll be grossly distorted. It's also noticeable that the constant HDD accesses have a regularity to them (1 - 2 accesses per second) and that regularity modulates the distorted sound to some degree. So, I'm fairly sure the two are linked in some way, eg. clashing on the PCI bus.
As is found with so many obscure problems that PC users discover with their PCs these days, if you google for them, you inevitably find a plethora of 'red herring' solutions from well-meaning but often misguided people. Honestly, you have to laugh at the sheer variety of them. Different respondents on forums offer their '100% guaranteed' solutions which invariably are not borne out when tried. Indeed, some of them are just plain daft and can, if you're not careful, get you into even deeper trouble or can cause corruption of the OS.
I'm of the view that certain problems can be caused by the order in which Windows Updates are applied, or not applied as the case may be, especially as is the case when you've done a reformat of the hard drive or have just finished building a new machine and you therefore need to download and install a great wadge of OS updates. Curiously, some updates from the WU website require subsequent manual changes in the Windows Registry, something you won't realise if you opt for automatic Windows updates each month. Even that I find really weird, in that surely the requisite Registry mods should be done as part and parcel of the automatic download/installs, shouldn't they? Apparently, not.
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stumbled across this thread via google-foo today while researching the crazy temperature problem that has suddenly sprung up with my GA-P55A-UD3. i turned my computer on this evening to find my CPU fan completely stopped. while trying to figure out why, i noticed my CPU temp as reported by my BIOS as -10C.
oddly, each time i entered BIOS while enabling/disabling different settings trying to clear up the condition, the temp would decrease by 10C. i ended up at -90C before i gave up, and shut the PC down and went to have dinner. when i came back, the problem had miraculously fixed itself.
while the problem was occurring, realtemp and CPU-tweaker both reported normal-ish temps (for passive cooling anyway), which would suggest the CPU temp sensor is fine. ET6 claimed the CPU was pegged at 100C.
i have an older BIOS build, F6. im hesitant to flash the BIOS unless i know it will fix the problem. i find it odd that the problem suddenly started without me changing anything.
does gigabyte or anyone else have any new information regarding this problem?
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No new info I am afraid but I would suggest try changing the motherboard battery from what you say as it has to be something simple like that if everything else is working. The other thing to check would be the PSU voltages when the problem is occuring.
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stumbled across this thread via google-foo today while researching the crazy temperature problem that has suddenly sprung up with my GA-P55A-UD3. i turned my computer on this evening to find my CPU fan completely stopped. while trying to figure out why, i noticed my CPU temp as reported by my BIOS as -10C.
Hi, I have had exactly the same problem with a P55-USB3 the fan completely stopped and when I went into the bios the temperature was showing -37 C, after I waited for about 3 minutes I turned the pc back on and it was fixed. Concerning the bios upgrade, one day when I turned the system on I heard a loud noise all the way into windows and I didn't know what it was, sure enough it was just a very long beep and the temperature in the BIOS was reading -37C again, I upgraded the BIOS from F8 to F9 and I still had the same reading in the BIOS and the same noise the only "fix" was completely shutting down the PC and waiting a few minutes. Funny thing is that every time this erroneous reading happened I always checked the temperature with RealTemp and it was reporting the correct temperature of the CPU.
I also have random beeps while in windows that stop if I turn off "Fan Fail Warning" in the BIOS but I don't want to do that because I had it turned off when my fan completely stopped and I didn't notice it until the PC became very sluggish. This random beeping in the desktop goes away if the CPU is always at full speed by disabling C states in the BIOS or if I watch a video, listen to some music or play a video game indicating that it only happens randomly(?) if the CPU is completely idle.
Before the random beeping in the windows environment I always heard a beep when I first turned on the system (no not the POST beep, it happened after the POST one) and I noticed that the fan always stopped when that beep happened and then worked again. I really don't know what made it change to making random beeps in Windows instead of making them after the POST but I'm grateful at least that my fan didn't stop working in 4 or 5 months. I bought my PC at the end of July last year and for about 4 months I didn't have these random beeps and the only fan problem was that once it wouldn't want to go above 945 RPM or so and when I checked the BIOS the temperature was -37C again, this thing happened two times, once in August and once in November, after that the whole beeping problem started.
Another thing about the random beeps in windows, whenever they happen I can hear my fan going almost full throttle sometimes for about 1 second after the beep and then going back to normal speeds.
My cpu is an i5 760 and everything is powered by a Corsair TX650W
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Hi and welcome to the Gigabyte Forum.
It would seem to be a BIOS issue. The trouble is until they release another BIOS update with it fixed there is little you can do apart from report it to GGTS.
Just enter your email address and click on the language of choice.
GGTS http://ggts.gigabyte.com/
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GGTS have been in complete denial about this for at least the last three months, and possibly well before that. As you'll see from my earlier postings on this bug, I spent many days, on and off, conducting experiments to pin it down and interacting with GGTS. It appears to be a BIOS problem, affecting not only the P55A-UD3 but also several other mobos in the P55 series.
Unfortunately, GGTS took the view that, until they could reproduce the problem themselves, the problem doesn't exist. And, of course, they did their best to avoid setting up the appropriate conditions for the CPU in the BIOS to reproduce the problem, despite instruction from me.
I found that, with 'normal' settings for power-saving, temp alarms, etc. in the BIOS, the negative temperature readings would appear after the machine had been on for around 30 mins. The problem also appeared specifically around voltage settings for the CPU that were slightly below the average recommended operating voltage for the CPU. If you used the BIOS to tweak the voltage to a higher level, eg. if you specifically were trying to overclock the CPU, the problem would reduce. However, increasing the voltage will, of course, cause the CPU to run hotter, anyway, and so keep the temperature more positive.
Fan speeds will drop, or the fans stop completely in some instances, if the BIOS reads that the CPU temperature has apparently dropped to a low value (since obviously cooling is then not required). The reality is that, when this happens, the CPU's temperature will be going up! So, this is risking the CPU seriously overheating.
GGTS's attitude came across to me as one where they were looking for every excuse not to investigate and re-write the BIOS. I even sent them screenshots of my BIOS, showing the negative temperatures, but they still failed to agree that any such problem existed. Perhaps if and when considerably more users complain to GGTS that this is happening, they'll change their tune and admit that there's a very real problem there. Frankly, my personal view is that the core BIOSs used across the P55 series mobos are badly written and contain not only this bug but several others as well.
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Dark Mantis, i have tested my CMOS battery, and am getting 3.1v. its a 3v nominal cell, so im sure its OK. i didnt test my PSU voltages while the problem was occurring, and the problem has not reoccurred since my first post.
i hesitate to contact GGTS about the problem just yet, because, as i said, the problem has not reoccurred. from what im hearing they will likely tell me it was a fluke or my eyes were deceiving me.
FWIW, my system is mildly overclocked and has been running the current settings for about a year:
i5-750 @ 3.8ghz (200x19) @ 1.25v
unfortunately, due to my current fan controller setup, i do not have RPM monitoring on any of my fans (and thus, CPU fan failure warnings are turned OFF). fortunately, i have a chunky enough air cooler that my system will run passively at acceptable temps as long as im not folding or running prime95 or something ludicrous like that.
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Wicked_Sludge,
I'm bound to say that if you don't report the matter to GGTS (and others not bother either), then GGTS will never really get the message that there is indeed a bug of this kind in the BIOS. So, please do report it to them. Their attitude will only change when significant numbers of users have complained about the problem.
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Yes i would have to agree with forumjoe there. You must report all problems that you can't resolve otherwise they only hear about the odd ones and don't give the issue all the work it requires.
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Ok, done and done.
we shall see what they have to say!
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Yes please let us know what their response is. If it is not that helpfull at first don't just give up though push for a proper answer as often the first reply is a fairly standard response.
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as expected, they suggested i update my BIOS, which i unwillingly did. luckily, my saved overclock file was lost...so now i get to spend the evening trying to remember what everything was set at >:(
im not sure what else i can ask of them, since my system is still working as it should be since the evening it gave me fits ???
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You don't need to ask them anything, Wicked_Sludge, you just need to point out that you've encountered this problem and that, if the bug is left unfixed by Gigabyte, it would threaten the whole stability of the computer, as it results in the fans turning off and, in reality, the CPU temperature sky-rocketing! The fact that you yourself have side-stepped the standard arrangement now and that it doesn't remain a problem for you is hardly the point.
It's abundantly obvious to me and to many others who've encountered it that there's something really badly wrong with the way that the BIOS interprets the CPU temperature. It looks as though the BIOS can only interpret within a very small range and, particularly when the other BIOS energy-saving settings are used, gets out-of-range and can't recover. This bit of the software has been used across BIOSs in a good number of P55 boards.
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Hello all,
After one year of perfect work today i got this problem too... my Bios ver is F4
Thank God 4xcore temps still showable...
Does newest BIOS version helps to solve this problem ?
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no. upgrading the BIOS does not seem to help the problem.
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So.. one year later, is there is a solution?
My mobo has flipped the crazy temperature switch too...
First thing I noticed was that Speedfan was reporting -128 for CPU temp, but accurately reporting individual core temps.
Rebooted, BIOS is reporting -40, and now Speedfan is also reporting -40.
Intel i5 760
Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3
Seasonic X-460 PSU