Official GIGABYTE Forum
Questions about GIGABYTE products => Motherboards with Intel processors => Topic started by: forumjoe on November 16, 2010, 05:24:50 pm
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Mobo: GA-P55-US3L.
Bios version: FE.
CPU: Intel i5-650 Clarkdale.
This is a new topic, following on from my earlier one entitled GA-P55-US3L: operating a PWM fan from a 3-pin arrangement. The CPU fan I'd bought turned out to be faulty. I've been delivered a replacement CPU (PWM) fan and have now got it running, albeit at top speed only. Thus, I've finally been able to keep the PC powered on and been able to inspect and configure the BIOS (no OS installed as yet).
More on the unmoveable top speed of the CPU fan later, but the other 4-pin header on this mobo, called the Sys 2 Fan header, is showing some odd open-circuit voltages on its pins. Here's what I've measured with a meter:
Pin 1, labeled GND: 0v
Pin 2, labeled +12v/SPEED CONTROL: +5.38v
Pin 3, labeled SENSE: +10.58v
Pin 4, labeled RESERVED: +5.08v.
The other day I connected my 3-pin inlet fan to it, obviously being careful to use only the first three pins of the header, but the fan hadn't run. Now I know why! But why on earth should the header be producing these voltages? Are they somehow linked to the Smart Fan Control, in the same way that the CPU Fan header is? Or are some 4-pin headers simply unsuited to operating 3-pin fans? I've noticed that Pin 2 of the Sys 2 fan header is labeled as +12v/SPEED CONTROL in the same way that the CPU fan header is, but Sys Fan 1 header and Power Fan header have Pin 2 labelled only as +12v.
As for the CPU Fan which is now running, there's nothing in the Smart Fan Control in the BIOS (version FE) that allows me to manually control the fan's speed. The settings are AUTO, VOLTAGE, and PWM. I've tried all three but to no effect. Is the only way to control the speed to install the Smart 6 utility, once Windows is there? Or am I missing a trick somewhere?
Now to the BIOS itself. Anyone know what QPI/Vtt Voltage is? (currently, 1.1v). Just interested to know the semantics.
Anyone know what PCH Core Voltage is? (currently, 1.050v). And CPU PLL? (1.800v).
Why isn't a Battery Voltage given? Surely that's a serious omission, as at some stage in the future you might need to change the battery and therefore, during the life of the PC, you need to keep an eye on its voltage? How can I suggest to Gigabyte that they add that to a future BIOS revision?
What is PCH Temperature? (currently, around 39 degrees C).
I was surprised to find that the BIOS has put the first of my two optical drives on the Slave of the SATA Channel 0, the single hard drive being the Master on that same channel. How can I reorganise the SATA physical connections so that the hard drive is on a channel on its own? The SATA2 group of ports are SATA2 0 - 5. I've currently got the SATA connections on them as: 0: HDD, 1: CDROM drive, 2: DVD/RW drive. I assumed that because these are SATA connections there was no concept of master and slave. BTW, I'll be using them in IDE Native mode. I'll not be using RAID or AHCI.
Finally, anyone know what the safe, average value for the core voltage of an i5-650 is? According to some CPU tables I've seen, it's somewhere between 0.65v (min core voltage) and 1.4v (max core voltage). The speed of the CPU is currently being reported as 3333 MHz. I don't need it that high, and the nominal speed of this CPU is 3.2GHz, so I'd like to get it down to 3.200 GHz, by adjusting the frequency and voltage downward slightly, to something that will give really safe working, with the CPU dissipating only its nominally-designed-for amount of heat. The core voltage at present is being reported as 1.220v.
Sequel: Using a 3-pin fan extension lead, I've now measured the on-load voltages on Pins 2 and 3 of the Sys 2 Fan header, ie. with the inlet fan attached. They're 5.38v and 5.08v respectively. However, the inlet fan (nothing special about it; it's a 3-pin fan) now runs (and very fast), even though the basic voltage supplied to it is still only around 5v. This is getting annoying.
Meanwhile, as the system boots I'm getting a continuous tone as a warning signal. I think that's indicating that the graphics card is possibly misaligned, though the monitor still shows everything okay. Looks like I'll have to take the graphics card out and reseat it.
Sequel to sequel: Does a continuous tone indicate a problem with the graphics card, or a problem with the PSU or the supplies generated on the mobo? When I google for it, I get all sorts of different answers. The POST sequence gives a single beep, suggesting that the voltages outputted by the PSU are all good. It's after that that the continuous tone starts.
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Meanwhile, as the system boots I'm getting a continuous tone as a warning signal. I think that's indicating that the graphics card is possibly misaligned, though the monitor still shows everything okay. Looks like I'll have to take the graphics card out and reseat it.
If you are getting a continuous tone I would think that it is more likely to be a motherboard alarm, probably for the fan speed.I would advise youy to check in the BIOS and see which one it is.
Sequel: Using a 3-pin fan extension lead, I've now measured the on-load voltages on Pins 2 and 3 of the Sys 2 Fan header, ie. with the inlet fan attached. They're 5.38v and 5.08v respectively. However, the inlet fan (nothing special about it; it's a 3-pin fan) now runs (and very fast), even though the basic voltage supplied to it is still only around 5v. This is getting annoying.
That is very unusaul to say the least as most fans are 12V and won't even start up at anything under 7V. They may be coerced into running at less than 7V once turning but even then would be at slow speed. What are the same pins measured at no load ie fan disconnected?
Now to the BIOS itself. Anyone know what QPI/Vtt Voltage is? (currently, 1.1v). Just interested to know the semantics.
QPI is the acronym for Quick Path Interconnect and is what has now taken over from the old Front Side bus. NB to CPU.
I will answer the rest of your questions tomorrow. ;)
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Before seeing your reply, DM, I realised the reason for the long continous tone. In the BIOS, I'd set the then-used fans to the fail alarmable state. So, your reply above on that matter was obviously along the right lines. I strongly suspect that if I either put the inlet fan back on the Pwr fan header or I disable the Pwr fan alarm, the tone will go away. Mystery solved. Nothing to do with the graphics card.
Yes, those on-load voltages at the Sys 2 Fan header are nothing what you'd expect, are they? The off-load voltages of that header are as I reported above, namely this:
Pin 1, labeled GND: 0v
Pin 2, labeled +12v/SPEED CONTROL: +5.38v
Pin 3, labeled SENSE: +10.58v
Pin 4, labeled RESERVED: +5.08v.
So, they're very much the same as the on-load voltages.
Thanks for letting me know what QPI stands for. The QPI, or FrontSide Bus, voltage on my mobo would appear to be just 1.1v. That seems a low value to me.
I mentioned the battery above. I think it's the case that most mobos actually trickle-charge the battery, once the PSU has been attached. So, initially the battery voltage will be low, but in time will creep up, levelling out. To be able to monitor this happening makes it even more important to have the BIOS tell you what the battery voltage is. This is the first mobo I've ever come across where the battery voltage hasn't been shown in the BIOS.
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I think I've realised how I can get the CPU frequency down a bit. In the BIOS, I already had CIA2 disabled but I've noticed that there's also a Performance Enhance setting in another part of the BIOS, which is currently set to Turbo. I suspect that if I change that to Standard the frequency will more closely align with 3.2Ghz.
The most worrying problem at present is the non-functioning of the Sys 2 fan header. With what I've found, it's almost as though Gigabyte have put the wrong voltages on the pins of that header - about 11v on Pin 3 instead of it being on Pin2. Well, it looks like it's either that or somehow the bit of circuitry on the mobo that handles the sys 2 header has been damaged, and possibly irrepairably so.
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The most worrying problem at present is the non-functioning of the Sys 2 fan header. With what I've found, it's almost as though Gigabyte have put the wrong voltages on the pins of that header - about 11v on Pin 3 instead of it being on Pin2. Well, it looks like it's either that or somehow the bit of circuitry on the mobo that handles the sys 2 header has been damaged, and possibly irrepairably so.
I have been trying to envisage how the voltages you have given could be found and the only way I came up with is if you are reading them from the wrong side. Please don't take offence at this suggestion but is there any chance you could be looking at the header from the wrong end?
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A good point, but all the fan header pinniings in the manual show Pin 1 as being the lowermost pin, with the keying of the header then being on the righthand side. Pin 1 is normally Gnd, isn't it, with +12v appearing on pin 2? I think it's a convention with headers that, with the keying piece on the right, pin 1 will always be the lowermost pin. That's vertical orientation, of course.
Theoretically, I don't think it's possible to mis-connect a fan or a fan controller, due to the built-in keying of the respective connectors. On the other hand, there'd be nothing stopping Gigabyte from making a mistake in the design of the board and, as a consequence, feeding the incorrect voltages to the header. They do, after all, produce revisions of their boards, and though this one is merely the latest available in Europe, it's not the very latest revision. Personally, though, I think it's more likely that one of the regulator components in that precise area of the board has blown.
Maybe it's also possible that Gigabyte have set up the Sys fan 2 header on this particular board as a PWM header? Maybe that's why such odd voltages are on the pins? If you, for the sake of argument, assume that something daft like that has been done, then if you just attach a 3-pin fan, as I've done, the chances are that the fan wouldn't run, as Pin 4 is open.
I could ignore using this header and instead use the 3-pin Pwr fan header. That works flawlessly. But if one or more board components have blown I wouldn't want to continue using the board, as it might overheat in time or give rise to other failure conditions.
Here's a thought, though. Why did Gigabyte make this header a 4-pin one? According to the manual, pin 4 of it is merely 'reserved' (but it's actually got 5v on it at present). Before PWM fans came on the scene, why was it necessary to have 4-pin fan headers? I don't see the logic of it.
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Right well I thought that it was time I dived in there with my trusty digital meter and took some readings. Don't forget that my board is different to yours (GA-X58A-UD7) but the fan headers should give the same readouts approximately. These readings were at a no load condition.
Yours
Pin 1, labeled GND: 0v
Pin 2, labeled +12v/SPEED CONTROL: +5.38v
Pin 3, labeled SENSE: +10.58v
Pin 4, labeled RESERVED: +5.08v.
Mine
Pin 1, labeled GND: 0v (Ground)
Pin 2, labeled +12v/SPEED CONTROL: +7.99v
Pin 3, labeled SENSE: +10.46v
Pin 4, labeled RESERVED: +5.01v.
As you can see there is not so much difference at all. I would guess that the speed control (pin2) is the 7v that I said most fans need as a starting voltage and then the sense (pin3) would fluctuate depending on the feedback from the "tacho".
I would suggest from these figures that your Speed control(pin2) voltage is too low and that is why your fan wouldn't start.
Hope this helps somewhat.
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I've just found a forum question-and-answer elsewhere that relates to this header problem. See pages 1 and 2 of this, especially page 2:
http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/41371-3-pin-fan-4-pin-fan-header.html
It's considering a somewhat older Gigabyte board but demonstrates the kind of problem I have. My mobo manual simply doesn't explain the necessary configuring of the BIOS for this in sufficient detail and how you subsequently achieve control of the speed of whatever type of fan you're using.
According to one or two of those respondents on that tweaktown forum, if you use a 3-pin fan on a 4-pin header on a Gigabyte mobo, you have to set up the Smart Fan Mode in the BIOS to 'Voltage'. The implication is that if you need to do it for a Sys fan, it will also cause the CPU fan to operate in the self same mode. In effect, those respondents are saying that, on a mobo like mine, the CPU fan control doubles up with that to the Sys 2 fan. You can't run those two fans with independent control. Thus, if you set the mode for the CPU fan to PWM and you connect a 3-pin fan to the Sys 2 fan header, the CPU fan will run but the 3-pin fan on Sys 2 won't (as the 4th-pin connection on that header can't be used by the 3-pin fan and won't be connected through anyway).
Maybe there's something in this. I'll have to explore my machine a bit more. Perhaps, in the end, I'll just have to use the Pwr fan header for that 3-pin inlet fan.
My 4-pin PWM CPU fan, incidentally, is running at just over half its maximum speed, that being about 1440 rpm so, for that fan, clearly some form of speed control is automatically happening. I'd like to manually drop that to about the fan's minimum speed, which is 900 rpm. But I don't want to have to install any software just to do that. Consequently, I've been wondering whether one of the latest devices from Zalman, the so-called PWM Mate, will do that job instead. Anyone had any experience of using a PWM Mate controller with a 4-pin PWM fan?
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Yes interesting . I am at present using a couple of the older versions the Zalman Fanmate2 s but of course they are not PWM controllers.
I take it the PWM MATE Fan Controller is fed from a 4 pin molex connector directly from the PSU.
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DM,
Many thanks for taking the trouble to measure your own header voltages. The results are interesting. At the time you took those readings, how exactly was your Smart Fan Control set up in the BIOS? Don't forget there's both CPU Smart Fan Control and then CPU Smart Fan Mode. Is it conceivable that the voltage on Pin 2 will be inadequate on the Sys 2 header if the CPU Fan Mode is set to PWM rather than Voltage?
I'm finding this all about as clear as mud, at the moment.
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I will check the settings in the BIOS when I next reboot and then post here.
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Re the PWM Mate, no I beliieve the controller is fed from the mobo's PWM header. Zalman market a PWM cooler/fan assembly of their own which can accommodate a PWM MAte Controller directly on the assembly. But a short video I've seen at QuietPC.com suggests that the PWM Mate can otherwise be connected by the supplied adaptor lead into the mobo's PWM header. See here:
http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/products/caseaccessories/pwmmate
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Yes I had already looked at that but it doesn't actually show where the fan/controller is attached for the power. You may well be right.
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I don't know whether it's just coincidence but, as we've seen, the voltage on Pin 2 (+12v/SPEED CONTROL) of my Sys 2 fan header is roughly half that of the voltage on Pin 3 (SENSE). It happens that the speed of my CPU fan is currently running at around half its potential.
So, could there actually be a tie-up between the functioning of the CPU fan and that of any Sys 2 fan? In other words, could it be that they are NOT independent and that you have to be careful as to which fan mode you set up in the BIOS? Perhaps if you try to use a PWM CPU fan and also a non-PWM fan on 4-pin headers, only one of the two fans is ever likely to run, at certain CPU temperatures?
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DM,
According to this, the PWM Mate gets its power from a lead that plugs into the mobo. It must be some sort of split lead that's supplied with it, if that's the case, as the Mate controller seems to have itself only a 4-pin connection and yet it has to not only marry up with the fan's connector but also to the mobo's connector, be that the PWM mobo header or a spare power lead from the PC's PSU.
http://www.techpowerup.com/107982/Zalman_Releases_PWM_Mate_Fan_Controller.html
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Yes apparently it connects to the CPU_FAN connector.
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8403/fancontroller.jpg)
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Away from the computer, I've now had a good think about this matter, and I reckon I've sussed out basically what's meant to happen. Possibly, this may have already been blindingly obvious to you and others, DM, but not to me. This still leaves a few unknowns, though. Feel free to pick holes in this.
Here's what I think happens. Consider the labeled four pins of the CPU fan header. In the BIOS, when you put the Fan Mode to Voltage, the CPU controls the speed of the CPU fan by varying the voltage on Pin 2 of the header, and the CPU will do this according to its core temperature. Conversely, if you put the Fan Mode to PWM, the voltage on Pin 2 will revert to a fixed value of around +12v and instead a PWM signal will function on Pin 4, controlling the speed instead by that method. Again, that PWM signal will be actioned by the CPU and will be a function of the CPU's core temperature. If you completely disable Smart Fan Control, then PWM is curtailed, as is also Voltage control, and the voltage on Pin 2 will revert to around +12v, making the fan run at full speed all the time.
I suspect that the Sys 2 Fan header works in much the same way. That is, it uses Voltage control on its Pin 2 in order to determine its fan's speed. However, Sys 2 fan header doesn't have any PWM control. And if you disable Smart Fan Control, I reckon the voltage on Pin 2 will again revert to a fixed value of around +12v, making the fan run at maximum speed.
lf my conclusions are correct, it should mean that, if I disable Smart Fan Control and then connect the CPU PWM fan via a Fanmate2 (no, not a PWM Mate, a Fanmate), the Fanmate should allow me to manually control the speed of the CPU fan. There's of course a physical mismatch with the connectors (3-pin to 4-pin) but this can easily be overcome by just snipping away one outer edge of the Fanmate's 3-pin connector. Once the speed is set manually in this way, of course, it won't then vary with temperature but if I'm confident about the likely heat increase and I gauge the required fan speed correctly, I should be able to set the fan's speed somewhere between its minimum and maximum and adequate cooling will result, consistent with achieving minimum noise. This method will avoid having to later install the Easytune utility just to be able to set the speed.
The Sys 2 fan should similarly be manually controllable by a Fanmate but, without experimenting, I'm unsure as to whether disabling Smart Fan Control will also disable the Voltage control of the Sys 2 fan. I suspect that, with Smart Fan Control enabled, the speed of the Sys 2 fan will be determined by the CPU and its sensing of the air temperature in the case. It could well be that, in my situation, the case temperature has not, as yet, been high enough to warrant the Sys 2 fan, ie. the inlet fan, being on. So, maybe that's why the voltage on its Pin 2 is only around +5.4v. (Earlier, DM, you hinted that this might have been the situation). This would be a reasonable way of automatically operating the inlet fan but, frankly, wouldn't be my first choice. As with the CPU fan, I'd rather have complete manual control of it, making it run at a fixed low speed all the time. Again, the manual control solution would seem to be to operate the Sys 2 fan via a Fanmate.
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From what I've noticed, SYS_Fan2 on many boards only runs at half speed (Or voltage) all the time no matter what.
That or it fails to work at all, but that may just be with certain fans or users not knowing about the issues with it.
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I suspect that the Sys 2 Fan header works in much the same way. That is, it uses Voltage control on its Pin 2 in order to determine its fan's speed. However, Sys 2 fan header doesn't have any PWM control. And if you disable Smart Fan Control, I reckon the voltage on Pin 2 will again revert to a fixed value of around +12v, making the fan run at maximum speed.
lf my conclusions are correct, it should mean that, if I disable Smart Fan Control and then connect the CPU PWM fan via a Fanmate2 (no, not a PWM Mate, a Fanmate), the Fanmate should allow me to manually control the speed of the CPU fan. There's of course a physical mismatch with the connectors (3-pin to 4-pin) but this can easily be overcome by just snipping away one outer edge of the Fanmate's 3-pin connector. Once the speed is set manually in this way, of course, it won't then vary with temperature but if I'm confident about the likely heat increase and I gauge the required fan speed correctly, I should be able to set the fan's speed somewhere between its minimum and maximum and adequate cooling will result, consistent with achieving minimum noise. This method will avoid having to later install the Easytune utility just to be able to set the speed.
The Sys 2 fan should similarly be manually controllable by a Fanmate but, without experimenting, I'm unsure as to whether disabling Smart Fan Control will also disable the Voltage control of the Sys 2 fan. I suspect that, with Smart Fan Control enabled, the speed of the Sys 2 fan will be determined by the CPU and its sensing of the air temperature in the case. It could well be that, in my situation, the case temperature has not, as yet, been high enough to warrant the Sys 2 fan, ie. the inlet fan, being on. So, maybe that's why the voltage on its Pin 2 is only around +5.4v. (Earlier, DM, you hinted that this might have been the situation). This would be a reasonable way of automatically operating the inlet fan but, frankly, wouldn't be my first choice. As with the CPU fan, I'd rather have complete manual control of it, making it run at a fixed low speed all the time. Again, the manual control solution would seem to be to operate the Sys 2 fan via a Fanmate.
I think that you are fairly much in the right area and I use a similar setup on my system for controlling the fans even though have a watercooling setup. I find the Fanmate2 is a good controller for this situation, and cheap which is a bonus. You shouldn't need to alter the conections at all when installing them as the 3pin connector fits onto the 4 pin header anyway.
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Yes, what you say is true, DM, but you've forgotten about the connector on the fan's lead. It has to mate with the shrouded, thee male pins of the connector on the lead from the Fanmate. Normally, the two cannot come together because of the keying of the respective connectors. However, if you just snip away the side of the aforementioned shroud with a pair of sidecutters, that problem is dealt with. There's no problem of that kind with the connection into the mobo; you just have to be careful you slide the connector on using only the first three pins of the header.
Re the PWM Mate device, QuietPC have confirmed that it can be run off the mobo header. They've pointed me to this:
http://www.zalman.co.kr/Eng/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=375
Scroll down to the How To Install diagram. The "4-Pin CPU Fan Connector" is the header in the mobo. Zalman stress that this device will only work with a 4-pin PWM fan, not a 3-pin fan.
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Lsdmeasap,
Thanks for your comment. I'd hitherto thought I was all but alone with the Sys 2 fan problem.
As I stated earlier, I think the stop-gap solution is to run the appropriate fan (in this case, the inlet fan) off the Pwr Fan header instead, if there's one on the board (which fortunately there is, in my case). There's no truck with that one, as it's a straightforward 3-pin affair. What has been concerning me has been the unusual voltages I found on the 4-pin Sys 2 fan's header. They might have indicated something seriously wrong with the bit of circuitry on the board that deals with the control of that header, in which case it would have been important to get to the bottom of it. Ignoring a hardware problem with the mobo could have more serious consequences later. However, I'm inclined to think that maybe those voltages are correct for the circumstances. It's just so annoying that, in the user manual, Gigabyte have not explained in anything like enough detail how these various headers should work. Of course, your suspicion could be well-founded; it might transpire that Gigabyte have indeed dropped a design clanger with regard to the Sys 2 fan header and that the error has been perpetrated through P55 boards other than my US3L.
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Actually I have been trying to gain access to detailed specs and documents for just this kind of problem solving but so far have been unable to obtain them. Hopefully things might change in the future which will make it much easier to pinpoint the cause.
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Lsdmeasap,
Thanks for your comment. I'd hitherto thought I was all but alone with the Sys 2 fan problem.
As I stated earlier, I think the stop-gap solution is to run the appropriate fan (in this case, the inlet fan) off the Pwr Fan header instead, if there's one on the board (which fortunately there is, in my case). There's no truck with that one, as it's a straightforward 3-pin affair. What has been concerning me has been the unusual voltages I found on the 4-pin Sys 2 fan's header. They might have indicated something seriously wrong with the bit of circuitry on the board that deals with the control of that header, in which case it would have been important to get to the bottom of it. Ignoring a hardware problem with the mobo could have more serious consequences later. However, I'm inclined to think that maybe those voltages are correct for the circumstances. It's just so annoying that, in the user manual, Gigabyte have not explained in anything like enough detail how these various headers should work. Of course, your suspicion could be well-founded; it might transpire that Gigabyte have indeed dropped a design clanger with regard to the Sys 2 fan header and that the error has been perpetrated through P55 boards other than my US3L.
It's been that way since P35 boards, that header is always the same and I'm not sure why but I do know they do it by design or fault on all of them that I've seen.
I help 100's of Gigabyte users a week, so I see this all the time
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Really? That seems almost unbelievable. Why on earth don't Gigabyte fix it? They've had more than enough opportunity to do so, as they've produced several revisions of boards. As it stands at present, that particular header is all but unusable and is obviously causing considerable annoyance to users of those series of boards. It can't be doing Gigabyte's reputation much good.
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I believe it is by design meant to be slower than the normal headers, not sure why?
Maybe Runn3r could comment on this or find out why for us?
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Hi forumjoe
I will check this out for you.
But first I need to know Rev of your MB and results of tests with the latest bios FH.
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Hello runn3R,
You're lucky to have caught my attention, as I thought this topic was well 'done-and-dusted'.
I'm afraid I can't tell you whether BIOS FH has made any difference to the voltages at the Sys2 fan header, as I'm simply not using that header any more and am using Pwr Fan header instead. It's a pity I didn't think to test Sys2 header shortly after re-flashing the BIOS. I kinda got it stuck in my mind that the voltages at that header would have been set in hardware and therefore unchangeable by a BIOS update but, of course, it's possible that that's not the case.
Unfortunately, I'm now not going to be able to re-test my Sys2 header, as I altered the fan controller wiring in my setup and now it's not going to stretch as far as the Sys2 header. I may possibly be able to do it at a later time, when I've obtained a lead-extender, but who knows when that might be. I'm about to install the OS and a large amount of software.
Maybe some other kind soul on this forum who's installed BIOS FH and who's skilled with a meter will be able to take the measurements instead, or be able to nevertheless say whether FH has made any difference to that header? I'd advise that anyone who measures the voltages at that header does so with the utmost care, as there's very little space for probes and it'd be all too easy to short one pin, and hence voltage, to another. You need to fashion a fine-wire probe (and have a very steady hand) or use an extension lead and suitable probe. And very importantly, you need to take good precautions against static.
My board revn. no. is 2.1.
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I don't know in this particular instance with the FH BIOS version but as far as I have seen this half speed on SYS_FAN2 header is the norm.
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Yup, so the likelihood is that it's set in hardware, in stone.
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I would expect so. I don't know if it is by design or accident but all the boards I've tested or seen the specs of have been the same.
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Hi forumjoe
SYS_FAN2 has smart fan control. It is automatically set as enabled by design.
The speed of this fan depends on system temp, not CPU temp. It has only voltage control.
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Ah, well, if I've understood correctly what you've now stated, runn3R, that would explain why I could never get my inlet fan to run if I had it connected to Sys Fan 2 header. From system power-on, the internal temperature of my P55-US3L-based PC would have been well below the probable system temperature that would have turned that fan on.
I did try it initially with Smart Fan Control enabled in the BIOS, and also tried both modes, including voltage control, but I was still unsuccessful in getting the fan to run at all. From what you state, even if I were, it'd run at a speed entirely determined by the motherboard, not by me - unless it's somehow controllable via the EasyTune utility or something.
For my purposes - and I guess for a lot of other people's as well - this Sys Fan 2 header connection is all but useless. That's why I now use my inlet fan on the Pwr Fan header instead. As for Smart Fan control, it's a shame that I've had to ditch using that as well. I think that with cooling and quieting requirements as they are now, with PCs, people prefer to have more direct control over the speeds of the fans, rather than leaving it to the motherboard and temperature-sensing. I think that people would rather have all connected fans running from power-on, and so then know that that's the maximum amount of noise the fans are going to make. It would have been very nice if, with Smart Fan control, one could just use the BIOS to set an individual source voltage for each fan, in the range 6v - 12v. Instead, I've had to do it on the three fans I use by my own hardware mod.
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That does explain quite a lot actually. It also confirms that my suggested course of action of running all the fans from a Fan Controller is probably the best way.
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Yes, in the end it comes down to a choice of this:
(i) Use all three fan headers on the motherboard in combination with the BIOS's Smart Fan Control and accept that the speeds of them will be determined by the motherboard and will be temperature-dependent;
or (ii) Ignore and disable Smart Fan Control and instead use, inside the PC casing, independent voltage controllers for each fan, re-wiring to the headers from the controllers where necessary;
or (iii) Ignore and disable Smart Fan Control and instead install a purpose-designed multi-fan controller into the frontpanel of the PC and use that to control the fans.
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Yep. That's about the size of it I guess.
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Ah, well, if I've understood correctly what you've now stated, runn3R, that would explain why I could never get my inlet fan to run if I had it connected to Sys Fan 2 header. From system power-on, the internal temperature of my P55-US3L-based PC would have been well below the probable system temperature that would have turned that fan on. I did try it initially with Smart Fan Control enabled in the BIOS, and also tried both modes, including voltage control, but I was still unsuccessful in getting the fan to run at all.
You can try to use different system fan which can rotate when voltage is around 5,4 V as the one you have now can't start at all at this level unfortunately.
For my purposes - and I guess for a lot of other people's as well - this Sys Fan 2 header connection is all but useless.
For sure you can find a fan which will rotate with this header. As it depends on the system fan if speed control function is supported.
I think that with cooling and quieting requirements as they are now, with PCs, people prefer to have more direct control over the speeds of the fans, rather than leaving it to the motherboard and temperature-sensing. I think that people would rather have all connected fans running from power-on, and so then know that that's the maximum amount of noise the fans are going to make. It would have been very nice if, with Smart Fan control, one could just use the BIOS to set an individual source voltage for each fan, in the range 6v - 12v. (...)
Thanks for your valuable input.
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Yes, I suppose I could have tried the one other 'standard issue' inlet fan of the same size that I had, but I'd actually very carefully picked and purchased my various fans for their very low noise performances. Therefore, I had to accept whatever minimum working voltage they each had. For anyone who truly cares about reducing fan noise - and, these days, that's a fair proportion of PC users - it's the mechanical design of the fan and the amount of noise it produces at various revs that matters, rather than the precise voltage at which it starts to work. Most technically-minded persons wouldn't expect a fan of this kind to work at a voltage as low as 5.5v or thereabouts.
If anything, I think my and others' experiences with Sys2 fan header points to Gigabyte having assumed too low a turn-on voltage for the typical fan. In other words, that particular header needs to produce at least 7.0v in order to ensure adequate start-up on what could be a very wide assortment of nominally 12v fans.
As I remarked before, though, I think Gigabyte would have saved everyone a lot of aggro and disappointment if they'd not designed that header output for half or some other fixed low speed, even though it was also temperature-dependent. Instead, they should have organised Smart Fan Control in the BIOS so that it was able to independently control each of the fans via user-adjustable voltage control, in the BIOS. For each fan, temperature-tweaking for speed could have been a further option in Smart Fan Control. As it is, it rather looks as though Smart Fan Control has been totally wasted for the more noise-conscious of us. And particularly with Sys2 fan header being unusable, that's a big loss in choice of fan control.
Anyway, I hope that my discussion of the various fan headers has made their operation clearer for P55 board users.
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Yes, in the end it comes down to a choice of this:
(i) Use all three fan headers on the motherboard in combination with the BIOS's Smart Fan Control and accept that the speeds of them will be determined by the motherboard and will be temperature-dependent;
or (ii) Ignore and disable Smart Fan Control and instead use, inside the PC casing, independent voltage controllers for each fan, re-wiring to the headers from the controllers where necessary;
or (iii) Ignore and disable Smart Fan Control and instead install a purpose-designed multi-fan controller into the frontpanel of the PC and use that to control the fans.
That does not solve the problem, it is just a workaround. This is NOT acceptable. Gigabyte have been making motherboards long enough to know that every fan which is bios controlled needs a minimum start voltage. Most fans need a minimum of 6v to start. If the bios is only providing 4v then the fan isn't going to run. I experimented with over forty fans and not one would run with bios fan control enabled. In the summer this isn't a problem because the sytem temp is sufficient to supply the start voltage. I woke up at 4am today and when I switched the pc on it resulted in the siren being triggered because the fan wasn't receiving enough voltage at 25 C.
Personally, I think this a joke. There should ALWAYS be a start voltage of about 6.5 to 7v, even at -10 C in Antartica, to avoid this.
Gigabyte have gone backwards. I use to have more control ocer My K8NMF9.
I am going to mod my bios bios and fix this.
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Yes, you're right, my three options do not SOLVE the basic problem. They're merely workarounds. I wasn't claiming anything different.
I agree wholeheartedly with your view of Gigabyte and how they've so badly dealt with the Sys2 fan header output voltage. With several revisions of that particular board having already been issued, you'd have thought they'd have fixed it by now. From what I've been hearing, other boards in the P55 series have the same problematic header.
I found it extremely annoying that that particular header was not dealt with in a sensible manner by Gigabyte. As it stands, that Sys2 header and its associated electronics on the board are a complete waste of real estate and of that fan's inclusion in the BIOS. But it might be that Gigabyte can't now easily change that bit of hardware on the board. It was fortunate that, in my case, I was able to make use of the Pwr Fan header instead.
As you'll know from the thread, I've got around the general problem of all the fans usable on this board by using Fanmate fan controllers and just manually setting the speeds of the fans to fixed values. This is okay for me but might not be a satisfactory solution - sorry, workaround - for others.
I've had the feeling that Gigabyte tried to be a bit too clever when they devised the Smart Fan Control. For me, that's now completely wasted, as is also the Sys2 fan header. With a tad more thought, they could have organised the board and Smart Fan Control to give full user control of each and every fan, together with optional temperature control of the fans. What they came up with instead is perhaps just a hurried, ill-devised arrangement to suit what is, after all, a comparatively inexpensive board.
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(...) Sys2 fan header (...) needs to produce at least 7.0v in order to ensure adequate start-up on what could be a very wide assortment of nominally 12v fans. (...)
(...) There should ALWAYS be a start voltage of about 6.5 to 7v, even at -10 C in Antartica, to avoid this. (...)
Please try this special FV bios (http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/upload/files/BIOS_P55_US3L_2_FV_FAN.zip) for your issue.
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Thanks, runn3R, for posting the FV BIOS. I'm afraid it's a bit too late for me (Forumjoe), though, as I've now made considerable hardware alterations to get around the problem and am on the very point of installing Windows and all my software for the first time on this mobo. I would nevertheless urge anyone else who's encountered the 'header problem' to perhaps give BIOS FV a try. Maybe if the changes now made to the BIOS in respect of these fan headers have significantly improved the situation, I myself will later undo the hardware mods I've made and will try the headers with the revised BIOS. Perhaps someone could post a jpg of the revised BIOS settings later in this topic?