Official GIGABYTE Forum
Off-Topic => General discussions => Topic started by: Aussie Allan on February 14, 2012, 09:06:05 am
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Well I have a problem that's got me beat ATM, .... we all have our weak point ..... this seems to be mine :'(
Ive been doing battle for two days now with my OS (W7-64 Pro) any and all updates refuse to take (Fail) the one exception was "SilverLight" .....which takes validation confirmation out of the equation ( yes the genuine logo is in place)
when trying to install Office 2010 pro plus, .... I get an error of "please remove third party Legacy Groove or Microsoft groove server services" before install can continue...... error codes given point to Groove services and or Malware .......Norton 360 picks up diddly squat even in safe mode ...... Norton is my main wall but I also use "Super AntiSpyware" ..... I leave it on my system in an inactive state to save resources but it continually picks up (when run) things when used that Norton misses consistently .....really handy new feature in the latest version that allows you to pr-configure to go back up to 365 days instead of the generic 30 (modified file movement) this picked up over 20 valid hits over Norton but still no joy
Safe mode by Norton , .....safe mode Norton root kit, .... Norton Bootable root kit, .... install in safe mode of MS Office 2010 pro, ... change install path ...... rip out any and all references to MS Office and groove through explorer..........all have failed to fix the problem.
the only two I can find re "Groove services" has/was SilverLight and DropBox ..... removing these two has had no effect ..... still cannot install or update the OS ...... one worrying piece I read was Adobe CS5 Extended was included in possible groove conflicts :o you must be kidding me Microsoft
What am I missing Guys .... any and all help or opinions gladly excepted ..... Winning entry gets a bag of jelly-Beans. ;D
Aussie Allan
Update! ..... Forgot to add ...... hardare changes made in desperation :D ... system running at Optimized default settings, Revo OS Drive only with optical ...... still no Joy!
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Hi Allan,
I would love to be able to help you fix it but nothing springs to mind that you haven't already covered and Groove is not a program I am familiar with at all.
Do you get the same issue when it is run in safe mode ?
I will keep thinking about it and maybe something will come to mind.
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Usually, whenever I have been faced with a similar scenario, I go back to the beginning and do a clean install of the OS and drivers and then try to find which program (if any) is causing the problem.
Before doing a clean install I also make a System Image so that I can restore to the current setup if I feel the need to do so. Or I use a spare drive to do the clean install and then flip between the two in an effort to find the conflict. It all depends on how much time you really want to spend on trying to find the cause of the issue.
Apart from that suggestion, I'm afraid that, like DM, I too am at a loss as to what is going on. The only time I ever had a similar problem was when I was running an NVidia GPU and it was the NVidia drivers that were the culprit. I'm not saying that is the issue here but, from experience, that is where I would be looking first.
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Absic
Before doing a clean install I also make a System Image so that I can restore to the current setup if I feel the need to do so.
I think I'm being Dense as Diamond here Absic but if I can do a system image (with Acronis) do a clean install then copy back my activated programs and data well and good...... But I was under the assumption a system image when copied back will over right the entire drive including the the fresh install returning the machine to it's dodgie state .... can you elaborate ...
Aussie Allan
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I don't think that absic was actually suggesting that you do that merely that if you have the system image it is there as an option if you forget something or anything goes badly wrong.
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Yes, you are quite right there Allan.
What I was trying to say was, if you are still facing the same problem after a clean install then you would know that the problem is not a basic conflict within the software and you could restore to your current state to continue further troubleshooting, if you wished to do so.
Personally I would do a clean install on another drive (if available) and then check at each stage to see where the problem is encountered. Once I had tracked down the software or driver that was causing the issue I would then revert to the original OS drive and see if I could resolve the conflict in there. I hope that makes more sense.
The other factor to consider is how long does it actually take to do a clean install of the OS and programmes? I have often found this is actually quicker and easier to do than to spend days trying to resolve a problem and, if you need your PC for work this is often the best solution.
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Unfortunately ..... Good advice Absic .... DM .... it wasn't a month ago I deleted my master Clean copy (clone) and was relying on the dynamic Acronis incremental backup ..... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr .... live and Bl**dy learn
Between the tweaks in CS5, DataRam and several other apps , Plugins and programs .... this is a time consumption disaster to reload .... but looking more and more likely :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Sometimes it is the only realistic option and you have to bite the bullet and go for it. ::)
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I know our systems are different but I too use Adobe CS5.5 and a lot of similar software to yourself. I have got a complete clean install of the OS, drivers and programs down to around 5 hours in total, including ALL updates. Yes, there are other items that do extend the time but I have found that these can be done as and when required not to get me back up and running.
5 - 6 hours v the several days you have already spent and the possibility of several more without a resolution is, to my mind, a no brainer.
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Sometimes it is the only realistic option and you have to bite the bullet and go for it. ::)
Gotta Costco with the kids now so will give it a few more hours tonight ...... then it'll be the clean install......spring cleaning will be a tad early this year ;D
AA
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So, this is office updates only that fail correct? Since you are one that swears by Norton I wont say much there ;D, except have you tried uninstalling Norton so you can see if it's actually stopping the updates? You mentioned it not me :o And I know sometimes I've had issues with it, and even the antivrus app I use (ESET), where Uninstalling it was the only solution to what it was stopping from being installed.
So if you have not already, that would be my next test, uninstall Norton and any other virus applications that may or may not be scanning in the background. Then reboot and see if you can install the updates.
Have you tried installing them manually by downloading the updates individually? I ask because if so I'd like to know if you get the same error or not.
Can you also post the windows update log for us, well at least the end section where you see the fails, this must be done right after a failed install otherwise the failures may not be located towards the end (Or you an attache the whole log if you want). It's located here;
C:\Windows\WindowsUpdate.log
*Editing in something else now in case you are reading this right now, please wait for additional suggestion on Groove*
In case it is ONLY Groove stopping this, you should also try to disable it from running at startup if you have not already. You can use this tool, grab the install and install it goes into control panel (32bit items if you are using x64)
http://www.mlin.net/StartupCPL.shtml
Then find and uncheck or delete any office or groove startup entry, you can re-check or restore from the deleted section later if you want
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So, this is office updates only that fail correct? Since you are one that swears by Norton I wont say much there ;D, except have you tried uninstalling Norton so you can see if it's actually stopping the updates? You mentioned it not me :o And I know sometimes I've had issues with it, and even the antivrus app I use (ESET), where Uninstalling it was the only solution to what it was stopping from being installed.
So if you have not already, that would be my next test, uninstall Norton and any other virus applications that may or may not be scanning in the background. Then reboot and see if you can install the updates.
Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Lsdmeasap was right there and Norton was behind the problem from the outset. Over the years I have had many problems caused by Norton and then McAfee when they were taken over too. I have talked to very many people who wouldn't even think about using either one of them nowadays.
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For sure! And sorry, I forgot to include the best app ever made :D
http://www.mediafire.com/file/9ka3ypui0mea87w/Norton_Removal_Tool 2011-07-07.exe
Before using, be sure to grab your product key from the app itself, or your online account, in case you plan to reinstall it.
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Norton did get crappy for a while but its awesome now, lean and effective.
The install log should give you actionable leads; it wouldn't be the first time I've seen a Microsoft product trip over itself. It should be solvable (and could very well take longer than a full reinstall).
This may help:
http://office-2010.iyogi.com/help-support/office-2010-system-requirements.html
Basically, uninstall Office with manual cleanup and some other hoodoo and reinstall.
Also, running a registry cleaner (to detect, not to auto-clean!) may shed some light on the problem.
If you use Norton's registry cleanup, be sure System Restore is enabled as it will delete entries, not tell you what they are, not ask if your "sure", and won't offer an un-delete since that's what System Restore is for. (OK, so it can be too lean at times but if you want beefy, get Norton Utilities or some such.) If you've used any reg cleaner in the past, Office is usually the first to be broken.
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Many thanks Lsdmeasap, DM, Absic and Rolo .... sometimes you can't see the woods for the trees! .... I did try disabling Norton till next boot but you reckon rip it out entirely! ? ? ? .... and thanks for the "mediafire flame thrower App ..... I had a nightmare 3 yrs ago with Mcfee with it's own on-board uninstaller .... what a useless piece of "Beep-Beep-Beeeeeeeeep-Beep .... in fact! ....come to think about it ........ I haven't had this much fun since ripping that one out too ::)
"Norton did get crappy for a while but its awesome now, lean and effective." ... Sorry others, ....Gotta agree with this statement ..... lots has changed!
Basically, uninstall Office with manual cleanup and some other hoodoo and reinstall.Also, running a registry cleaner (to detect, not to auto-clean!) may shed some light on the problem.
Thanks Rolo been here already too ....... but all valid points ...... Reg Mechanic, Advanced Uninstaller Pro10, CCleaner and Super AntiSpyware all get a work at at least once a week .....
Office is usually the first to be broken. .... sad but true!
grab your product key from the app itself, or your online account, in case you plan to reinstall it. .... ;D :-X
I have been using it for about 18months now, especially after it went through a substantial upgrade including the dash-board .... and to be honest ..... I renewed my sub last week but did not have to reinstall ..... just popped in a new prod key , which was WE34Q-S44......... :D
" So, this is office updates only that fail correct? " ..... Predominately correct ..... near on all were 2010 Office update! (x86) ..... but there was 3 or 4 for NET Frame that also would not take ....Fail,fail,fail even when chosen by them selves.......... funny one was the Siverlight update ...... when chosen by itself ..... went in without a hitch ::)
Since you are one that swears by Norton :D .... on the contrary ..... All my software has to pull it's weight ..... Norton has done fair so far..... but if I find it is the culprit ....... it'll be joining my first 3 wives... ;) ..... I'll rip it out with the flame thrower and see how it fairs! ..... funny as I thought disabling them in the tool bar did the same thing ?
Have you tried installing them manually by downloading the updates individually? ...... one at a time ...... two at a time ......3, 5 and 25....in safe Mode .....firewall off/on ....you name it!
I'm starting to think "Groove" was just one piece in the puzzle .... and may not be even applicable ..... I'll keep you informed on that one!
In case it is ONLY Groove stopping this, you should also try to disable it from running at startup if you have not already.
That's one of the weird things ...... it was one of the first (ish) things I looked at and it's not even in there ..... which sent me down the "Malware road" with zero results!
Anyway you guys have given me plenty of homework to crack on with and although frustrating ..... will be interesting to get to the answers .... which I will post up ...... Many thanks.
Aussie Allan
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Yes, since you are continuing the troubleshooting I'd go ahead and uninstall Norton, and anything else you think might be holding you back, you can always reinstall later!
.NET updates failing are in a class of their own!! You'll need to uninstall ALL .NET updates, and then install them in a certain order.
Use this first, .NET Framework cleanup tool
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=121918
Here is the correct order, and direct links for each installer are posted at the page below:
1. .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 (this will install the 2.0 SP2 and 3.0 SP2 )
2. .NET Framework 1.1
3. .NET Framework 1.0
4. .NET Framework 4
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/astebner/archive/2010/12/22/10108400.aspx
Back to Norton. Yes, you'd think disabling or temporary disable would actually disable antivirus apps, but I often find it does not but only appears to do so. You can test and see if it's being disabled for real or not, try saving this text in a notepad with Norton disabled, if it allows you then it's disabled, if not then you'll know it's running!
X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H*
Even if it is actually being disabled, it might be best to go ahead and uninstall it just to rule it out, you can re-install it later!
Hope you can get this sorted without a clean install! I know it's often the quickest and easiest route, but I know how you feel wanting to keep the current system up and running, so good luck!
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Couple of real gems in there Lsdmeasap .... you never cease to amaze.
I might try the Norton first and reserve the .NET for third ..... Luv the code ...... I just bumped it on to 200 of my closest friends as an attachment ;D
Aussie Allan
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Haha, thanks man, I try!! :D
Crazy sending that out as an attachment :D, hopefully at least most of those users will get a blank email!
Good luck with this mess, hopefully you can sort it out with less headaches now!
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Haha, thanks man, I try!! :D
Crazy sending that out as an attachment :D, hopefully at least most of those users will get a blank email!
Good luck with this mess, hopefully you can sort it out with less headaches now!
Yeh! it was a joke ..... only sent it to 6 people ;)
You (and others) have cleared the foliage for me ..... can see the light between the branches now ..... times the killer though ..... off to a photo-shoot now till midnight and tomorrows already mapped out.....Dam!
Aussie Allan
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Thanks Rolo been here already too ....... but all valid points ...... Reg Mechanic, Advanced Uninstaller Pro10, CCleaner and Super AntiSpyware all get a work at at least once a week .....
You let these automatically "clean" (read: "destroy") your registry?
" So, this is office updates only that fail correct? " ..... Predominately correct ..... near on all were 2010 Office update! (x86) ..... but there was 3 or 4 for NET Frame that also would not take ....Fail,fail,fail even when chosen by them selves.
/facepalm
You need to fix .NET first; there's a .NET removal tool you should run, restart, run Win update and install just .NET.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/astebner/archive/2008/08/28/8904493.aspx
I think that's the one I used.
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Well still, that's plenty! Though maybe with that little amount the chances of anyone actually getting the file are minimal :D
Well enjoy your photo-shoot, and I hope you can sort this out when you have time to jump back into the fire! Since I don't often venture into this section, be sure to PM me to come and check this thread when you get back to it (Thanks!)
.NET must be installed in a certain way, and windows update tends to mess this up, so I suggest to anyone reading this with .NET issues to please see my previous post on the correct install order. Just a heads up Rolo, in case you ever come across anyone with .NET or .NET update install issues.
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IIRC, that procedure has downloads to install .NET manually (which will still need updated via Win update, to include one released today).
But, yes, I agree with you that a manual install is better when Win update is suspect.
I had .NET get completely borked on my test machine and that removal tool fixed it.
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Right!......Unless someone comes back with a definitive answer ..... I'm pulling the plug on this install :D
I have ruled out Every-thing discussed so far ..... don't get me wrong fellas..... I would not have got to here without the valued help by all concerned.
SUMMARY
Norton 360 version 5 and 6 is not the culprit ....... .NET repairs have had zero impact ..... turning off and clearing the windows update folder ....Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ........
without going into the other 10 or 15, ....it keeps coming back to "Runtime error" ....specifically nvvsvc.exe ...... Sad thing is all my researching leads to " Yup fixed it by reinstalling windows" ...... Grrrrrrreat! ....... thing is this machine ran for near on twelve months before the runtime error started at the login screen 2 to 3 weeks ago.
Oh well! .... what do you guy reckon. :-\
Aussie "beaten" Allan ;D
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Sorry to hear you lost the battle this time Allan!!
Maybe next round will be yours for the taking! :D
It's too bad we can't do "Repair" Win7 installs like XP, I can't believe they removed that option as it was awesome!
Forgot to ask... have you received any nasty emails replies back yet :D
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It was a "Stonking" feature of XP .... now it's affected me ...... Shame on you Bill Gates for removing it .....
"have you received any nasty emails replies back yet"
Only from my Bank Manager .... Mwa ha-ha-ha :D.....
Is there still no fix for the dreaded Nvidia NVV error ?
Aussie Allan
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Sory Rolo, I forgot to comment on what you mentioned about .NET. Those single installers and method of install are the best way to avoid issues, once they are installed their corresponding updates can be installed in any order without issue, you just have to get the main versions installed properly first and that's where the single installers come in handy.
Haha, you sent that to your bank manager, for real? I didn't look for a fix on that error, you said you were moving forward with a clean install. Would you like me to look around for you?
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You have a crumb-trail of issues here!
Did you uninstall, clean re-install your nVidia driver? (which does require .NET BTW)
As far as the bank manager issue, if you set up remote access for me, I'm sure I can resolve it.
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Just out of curiosity have you tried "Clean Boot', & gone through Reg Edit for fragments.
Sometimes software programs don't catch everything.
Hope this helps, if I think of anything else will let you know.
Ben.
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You have a crumb-trail of issues here!
Did you uninstall, clean re-install your nVidia driver? (which does require .NET BTW)
As far as the bank manager issue, if you set up remote access for me, I'm sure I can resolve it.
Crumb trail or puzzle pieces .....and yes! .... had to rename the install file to get it to install though, .... another weird crumb
Remote access huh! ........ well if you think it'll help, .....why not!, ..... would you need my bank A/C details too, .....will save you the hassle of invoicing me :D
Aussie Allan
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Just out of curiosity have you tried "Clean Boot', & gone through Reg Edit for fragments.
Sometimes software programs don't catch everything.
Hope this helps, if I think of anything else will let you know.
Ben.
yup! .... clean boot ....no effect .......I did check reg edit a couple of times after Advanced Uninstaller Pro10 ........ but to be honest, it seems to find all traces on it's second sweep when uninstalling anything.
Aussie Allan
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And I'm going to consider this one solved ..... Finally fixed it with secure erase of the Revo x2 ;D
And for those interested ........OCZ 90 GB Agility 3s....
- SATA-III 6Gb/s
- Read 525MB/s Write 500MB/s
- Maximum 4K Random Write 85,000 IOPS
- 3 Year Warranty
went on sale this morning for £84 including over on Ebuyer .....I'm seriously thinking of four of these for Raid0 set
Aussie Allan
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Nice to hear you were able to solve this finally! That secure erase usually fixes just about anything :D
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Glad you got it sorted out good old "Revo" I use it to.
Now all I have to find out is why my system refused to boot after installing some Microsoft updates, (straight after reading your last column) as when I went to restart it I got nadda , nothing, it was as if my power lead was not plugged in, I ended up removing my cmos bat, left the machine for an hour then I restarted & all was well, this is the first time that this has ever happened, weird huh?
Ben.