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Questions about GIGABYTE products => Motherboards with AMD processors => Topic started by: Signorefi on November 12, 2012, 06:57:45 pm

Title: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Signorefi on November 12, 2012, 06:57:45 pm
Model Name : GA-A75-UD4H(rev. 1.0)
M/B Rev : 1.0
BIOS Ver : F8a
VGA Brand : Radeon  Model : HD6550D  Drivers:9.002-120928m-149042C-ATI  12.10 Catalyst
CPU Brand : AMD Model : 3870K Speed : 3.0GHz
Operation System : Windows8   Ubuntu 12.10
Memory Brand : G.Skill Type : DDR3
Memory Size : 2x4GB Speed : 1333mhz
Power Supply : 400 W
HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB
DVDRW: Samsung SH-S223C
Input Devices: p/s2 keyboard and Microsoft 700 wireless keyboard and mouse

This being a newbuild and being made aware that ubunt12.10 and windows 8 should install by default in efi mode (that is to a ssd that is unallocated space or if preconfigured as GPT to an efi capable system.)
Have been attempting to efi install different os including Ubuntu 12.10 and windows 8 but have not been able to. So to cut a long story short just would like to take the opportunity to ask a few questions-
Is this mother board capable of installing windows 8 in efi mode?   I ask this simply because I know system could and should but gigabyte ts say this board is not efi capable. i.e. what does the bios setting to change dvd boot to efi/non-efi or auto do?
Where on earth are the bios security options in order to change bios mode/os type?
How to enable/disable secure boot?



Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: autotech on November 15, 2012, 04:07:52 am
Dont know alot about ubuntu but windows 8 uses UEFI. For the advanced features. As i say i dont know alot about but what i have been reading since i saw this post.
DualBIOS 3TB+ HDD Support (Hybrid EFI Technology)

Note : Some advanced Windows 8 features require optimized specifications such as a touch screen monitor, a UEFI BIOS, and an SSD that may not be available in every legacy and entry-level system. GIGABYTE Dual UEFI BIOS availability may vary according to the motherboard model. Please visit the respective motherboard web page for details.

May not be much help but as soon absic pops in or dark mantis they should know more. Sorry i couldnt be of more help. Welcome to the gigabyte forums.

That mother board does support hybrid efi for 3T hard drives.
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Signorefi on December 05, 2012, 01:56:02 am
Thx for posting autotech.   Still have not been able to install any OS in EFI mode.
Looking here http://uk.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3927&dl=1#driver does not help much  as gigabyte seem to have their own terminology!  Looking at http://uk.gigabyte.com/webpage/20/images/utiltiy_qflash_uefi.pdf (http://uk.gigabyte.com/webpage/20/images/utiltiy_qflash_uefi.pdf) is misleading as this mobo is definitely not uefi capable.  Apparently the uefi pdf is just for reference.
So misleading and contradictory.
One example is the point autotech raises about the misconception of GPT and EFI being for hard drives >2.2TB in size. Here is a screenshot provided by GTS (http://[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/image002ju.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img221/8002/image002ju.th.jpg)[/URL]
[/img]

 -which shows a windows 8 installation to a GPT 500gb hard drive in efi mode.  How disk formats and firmware managers get muddled up i do not know!  :P


GTS have been kind enough to share what should happen when EFI selected but i still have yet to achieve installing an OS in EFI mode on this hardware. Achieving this should be as easy as selecting EFI in bios and installing OS to an empty completely unallocated hard drive.

But EFI install aint happening.  Why?


Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Signorefi on December 06, 2012, 01:12:06 am
This motherboard is my first machine that is EFI capable. As there is little information in the motherboard manual regarding EFI and as this is the first time trying for EFI installation of OS has meant spending time researching and the more i research the more i want EFI capabilities.   I just need to understand the firmware being used in order to launch an EFI shell.   That is why i post here.  I am asking for help or advise on how to get an OS installed to 1TB sata hdd on ga a75 ud4h.  Like this (http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8038/image002vxy.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/image002vxy.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
GGTS have shown me it is possible but am stilling waiting for more info on how; as on my hardware this has not been happened yet!

The closest to a working How to; i can find, is http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/2328-uefi-unified-extensible-firmware-interface-install-windows-8-a.html
But due to hybrid bios i can not find os type, efi shell, secure boot options.  There is no documenation that i am aware of that is specific to this motherboard that is helpful in clarifying how EFI works or how to use command prompt to boot efi shelll. Help!


Newer OS's that are uefi compliant will install uefi/efi to hard disk >1TB but installer defaults to legacy bios if hard drive <1TB;  so trying to find more info on EFI have found this http://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/index.html (http://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/index.html) to be the most helpful in getting to grips of what should/does happen at boot time.  On ga a75 ud4h have stayed with trying for efi installation using DVD ESD.iso media.  (Allthough usb2.0 ports do work with usb devices)  But never get a EFI or UEFI assigned device in boot devices.  Booting OS from TsstDVDRW device gives legacy installation regardless of EFI settings.

Have found this very handy on windows install http://superuser.com/questions/464760/how-to-tell-if-windows-7-installer-boot-in-efi-or-bios (http://superuser.com/questions/464760/how-to-tell-if-windows-7-installer-boot-in-efi-or-bios) as it confirms which mode installer starting in before installation!
Another way to confirm if windows installer in efi mode is if it makes 4 partitions rather than 2 partitions just as shown in the eightforums tutorial linked above.

How do i launch efi shell on ga a75 ud4h?
Where are secure boot options?
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Signorefi on December 07, 2012, 08:02:34 am
 :o :-[
Selecting EFI for dvd in bios is all that should be needed to ensure the loading of an EFI boot image from dvd.
Which also sets hard drive as gpt. So using a bios installer with efi enabled will give a gpt mbr disk = legacy
The windows 8 ESD.iso that was being used does not have a valid efi boot image to load efi installer.  The solution is found at post #8 here http://windows8forums.com/windows-8-installation-upgrade/15083-my-windows-8-upgrade-odyssey.html (http://windows8forums.com/windows-8-installation-upgrade/15083-my-windows-8-upgrade-odyssey.html) Thx to OP for recording their adventures!
Once a fresh iso was made with oscdimg and burned to disk; after rebooting and running installer and then looking at setupact.log (see [urlhttp://superuser.com/questions/464760/how-to-tell-if-windows-7-installer-boot-in-efi-or-bios][/url]) now gives type 2 and efi where needed. Like this (http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6162/gaa75ud4hefi.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/gaa75ud4hefi.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


And 4 partitions were created rather than the usual 2 on installation.

Thankfully nothing wrong with the firmware or hardware as in this case it has been the efi boot image that prevented installer doing what should have been as simple as setting EFI and boot to that device.  Regardless - mission accomplished.   :o 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Signorefi on April 04, 2013, 01:56:56 am
Had been enjoying using this board for a while with the EFI install of windows8 without any problems but due to "losing" a partition and as there is no obvious means of accessing EFI shell or managing an EFI install was unable to recover/restore partition or boot files.
There is no appropriate information in this motherboards manual or on Gigabytes website regarding the installation or management of an operating system EFI mode relevant to this motherboard.   Additionally have been unable to repeat the process of installing windows 8 EFI mode.

Some of the questions that i would like to ask are

Any constructive advice would be more than appreciated.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Signorefi on April 23, 2013, 03:30:06 am
Have managed to confirm why Windows 8 installer wil not start in EFI mode.   Post #10 at this thread http://www.eightforums.com/bsod-crashes-debugging/21599-blue-screen-when-installing-windows-8-uefi-mode.html (http://www.eightforums.com/bsod-crashes-debugging/21599-blue-screen-when-installing-windows-8-uefi-mode.html) gives the required information to answer all the questions that i have been asking. Long story short Windows 8 requires UEFI 2.3.1 specification for installing UEFI mode.  The webpages for ga a75 ud4h no where; that i can see, mention which specification of EFI is being used if flashing any of the available bios versions nor in specifation table.  Most tutorials and/or information on web may indicate EFI is UEFI and are the same or backward compatible. Which has proven to be misleading to say the least.
The most useful places i have found getting to understand what EFI really is are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface) and http://www.rodsbooks.com/gb-hybrid-efi/ (http://www.rodsbooks.com/gb-hybrid-efi/)


As autotech mentioned all those months ago "Note : Some advanced Windows 8 features require optimized specifications such as a touch screen monitor, a UEFI BIOS, and an SSD that may not be available in every legacy and entry-level system. GIGABYTE Dual UEFI BIOS availability may vary according to the motherboard model. Please visit the respective motherboard web page for details." which at the time of posting there was a certain yellow badge on this motherboards webpages as well as other information which due to their inaccuracy have now been removed.
 :'(
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Vezina on April 23, 2013, 03:51:57 pm
I think the problem resides in Windows 8 and not with the board.
I still do not understand the hurry into using the Windows 8 OS failure.





Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Signorefi on April 23, 2013, 10:45:23 pm
The problem could be more easily distinguished for identifying if Windows 8 or motherboard/firmware as problem if there were appropriate information in user manual and website regarding EFI version and how to manage an EFI install on this motherboard. 

EFI has been around since before 2003. It is possible to install windows xp 64 bit (Itanium version) EFI mode and it has been possible to boot Linux kernel using EFI since 2000.
UEFI 2.3.1 has been around since late April 2012.
UEFI 2.3.1 is prerequisite or required criteria for pre installed OEM Windows 8 as Windows 8 is the first OS to demand Secure Boot functionality.  Secure Boot has been available as a feature since UEFI 2.2.

All the information above is sourced from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface)

Am aware it could very well be a problem with how windows installer is handling this version of EFI as well as the version of windows 8 i am using is an upgrade assistant (ESD) so would possibly have better chances of it going EFI mode if was upgrading an existing EFI install. 
I just need confirmation of what version of EFI this motherboard is using.  Might have better chance of working it out there on.

If i had a phone, tablet, laptop and a desktop i think if all the devices were to use the same OS it would be very advantageous.  Windows 8 and Ubuntu are two options for achieving this.



Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Vezina on April 24, 2013, 12:32:04 am
The board is a FM1 board.
This means you have a hardware that has no support whatsoever as we speak ,as even AMD put FM1 on a dead end track.

You just have to accept that you need either to use operating systems made properly and compatible all around like Windows XP ,Windows7 ,Ubuntu or OpenSuse ,so no Windows 8.Or buy a new APU+ mobo combo that has the proper UEFI version so the mighty Windows 8 works.

Your hardware does not fully support Windows 8 ,a big part of the problem are the morons that designed Windows 8 and a smaller part of the guilt is with Gigabyte that had a slow UEFI implementation.Gigabyte did not know that Microsoft  makes Windows8 as it did and most of us also.
Their struggle to kill pirates made them do this strange secure boot stuff ,that will be bypassed easily by the pirates and will only cause trouble for us ,the customers.

There is nothing you can do as a user ,you are caught between 3 huge vendors ,mostly due the all mighty Microsoft and it s monopolistic attitude.

If you want to use Winodws 8 upgrade hardware .If you want to use the hardware you ve bought ,hardware that is perfectly fine ,even as it is with no UEFI ,use other OS-s.Gigabyte will not change Hybrid to UEFI ,as they need to sell boards so don t expect updates.







Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Signorefi on April 24, 2013, 01:52:11 am
As windows 8 was not installed to this hardware before shipping would like to confirm windows 8 runs very well on this hardware both EFI mode and Legacy.  There is no obvious difference between the two modes due to the lack of EFI shell and EFI gui when booting EFI mode which hinders the management of an EFI install as previous posts in this thread describe and then losing ESP which meant reinstall time and an EFI mode install could not be repeated so currently have an MBR install of Windows 8.

I appreciate the point you make regarding upgrade to updated hardware that do have the required UEFI specification (in order to make more use of windows 8 features) but due to circumstances that may be some time off.

Personally have found researching this subject fascinating and enlightening (especially when reading pages like http://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/secureboot.html (http://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/secureboot.html))

There are many advantages of using UEFI over BIOS and as the last link given in this post indicates there are other options other than relying on Microsoft signed keys to manage a Secure Boot enabled machine.

The incentive for posting here was to get information regarding the implementation and management of the EFI features that this hardware does possess.

How do i confirm which EFI specification is being used on this hardware?

Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: AgentFXA on April 29, 2013, 12:38:28 am
Me too new to EFI and when installed Win7 I could not format the HDD as there was no efi format on the HDD?

I found out that this board/bios defaults to an efi boot device (dvd) and you have to change that (F12 boot manager) to a standard boot device before Win7 installed flawlessly. Took me some online research time, on my mobile phone, until I found the hint.

what a mess! 

 
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Vezina on April 29, 2013, 12:42:56 am
Quote from: AgentFXA on April 29, 2013, 12:38:28 am
Me too new to EFI and when installed Win7 I could not format the HDD as there was no efi format on the HDD?

I found out that this board/bios defaults to an efi boot device (dvd) and you have to change that (F12 boot manager) to a standard boot device before Win7 installed flawlessly. Took me some online research time, on my mobile phone, until I found the hint.

what a mess! 

 

All this to use the mouse in the BIOS ,which at least in Gigabyte UEFI implementation it s also laggy ,so you finally get the job done by keyboard as you did in pure BIOS-es (to avoid clicking 2-3 times to get something done of course). :)
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: AgentFXA on April 29, 2013, 04:41:26 am
Yes, I am certainly not warm with that AMI bios (vFC) - everything on Auto .. still didn't find a way yet to get manual mode throughout, like I was used to in the good old Award bios (ctrl F1), and all those efi boot devices you have to disable in the efi bios before Windows starts loading without delays. Looks a bit half baked to me.

XMP ram profiles are a nice new addition! works nicely and no hassle.

However, there is lots of room to make the bios easier me thinks
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Vezina on April 29, 2013, 01:04:24 pm
I think that AMI or Award matters less as all manufacturers use UEFI from AMI but with different results.
Also boards form the same manufacturer may behave differently.So the manufacturer has something to do with the final experience.

On the other hand AMI puts some bugs into the code to make Linux users unhappy.:)
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: AgentFXA on April 29, 2013, 11:24:08 pm
Okay, didn't know that AMI holds the UEFI bios and btw my error log dumps this even I got the latest FC bios

(http://s3.postimg.org/nwdh27ckj/hal_Capture.jpg)
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Signorefi on May 24, 2013, 01:00:26 am
 :) Slowly getting together a working EFI booting dual boot system.

For anybody who is interested.  The EFI specification can be verified by loading an Ubuntu installer and at grub options screen when booted EFI mode use the
Code: [Select]
lsefisystab command to confirm vendor and EFI version. On this motherboard doing this confirms Tianocore and EFI 1.1 as EFI type and version.  Which is also confirmed at the rodsbooks page specific to Gigabytes Hybrid-EFI.

As mentioned earlier due to losing a partition which left my Windows unusable i reinstalled in BIOS mode to get working system again.  Have just completed a non-destructive conversion from MBR to GPT successfuly which means now have an EFI windows install again. The guide i followed in achieving this uses GPTGen and instruction on "How to" are found at this http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/14286.converting-windows-bios-installation-to-uefi.aspx (http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/14286.converting-windows-bios-installation-to-uefi.aspx) tutorial.   Backing up the boot files should allow fairly easy reinstatement after firmware decides to reset again...  or if i mount gpt drive using tools that can not handle gpt...

It is looking like i may have to do a BIOS install of Ubuntu before converting to UEFI for a fully EFI booting dual boot system as after trying latest releases of other distros as well as trying newer and older flavours of Ubuntu still can not get an EFI install happening on this hardware for a linux EFI install. So maybe some of the comments here may be of some use :¬p

The UEFI specs webpage and the rodsbooks webpages confirm EFI shell and EFI GUI are not part of the UEFI specification but is easy enough to add the shell of your choosing in order to help manage the EFI system.
Title: Re: EFI or no EFI?
Post by: Signorefi on August 13, 2013, 10:51:39 am
"On the other hand AMI puts some bugs into the code to make Linux users unhappy."  and Award also.

 I find it truly remarkable a major well established company getting any business at all considering they struggle to uphold their agreements with other major companies.
The yellow badges indicating the hardware i bought was meeting the criteria of using EFI and secure boot have disappeared.  I can not install linux distrubutions due to firmware being hardcoded outwith EFI specification.
Gigabyte appears to be a law unto themselves.  Even telling concerned customers they should have bought a higher spec model if they wanted to do certain things with their hardware.

I can not see how a company who behaves in such a manner keeping their customer base.  I am not a lawyer and do not wish to be reason for concern but am very unhappy with the level of customer service and underhanded approach to things this company seems to have adopted.

Maybe it is time for Gigabyte to re-evluate their options in order to start widening their customer base and not cut their own throat especially in these modern times.


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