Official GIGABYTE Forum
Questions about GIGABYTE products => Motherboards with Intel processors => Topic started by: lores on June 22, 2011, 07:09:56 pm
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Hi!
I'm starting a new topic because a nearly two weeks' research hasn't been able to solve my problem.
I've bought the GA-P55-USB3 a few months ago together with a 2x2 GB G.Skill 1333 MHz kit. It had been working perfectly (with i5 760) until I tried to replace my old 2x2 GB set with a new 2x4 GB set from Corsair, Corsair XMS3 DIMM Kit 8GB PC3-12800U CL9-9-9-24 (DDR3-1600) (CMX8GX3M2A1600C9) (1600 MHz at 1,65 V via XMP; 1333 at 1,5 V via SPD). As soon as i removed the 2x2 GB kit and inserted the 2x4 GB one, problems appeared. I have been able to track them down to the following:
- regardless of the DRAM Voltage, Voltage Refs, Termination Voltage, Uncore, QPI, QPI Voltage, DRAM Timings, DRAM Divider and DRAM Freq settings, the computer is highly unstable whenever the 2x4 GB kit alone is used - which manifests in reboots, kernel panics in Linux and BSODs in Windows;
- memtest86+ 4.1 doesn't detect any errors whatsoever after running for 10 h multiple times at multiple settings;
- all other components are 100% stable;
- whenever only one stick of the 2x4 GB set is used, it works perfectly;
- if I revert to 2x2 GB (in dual channel), it works perfectly, also with all the settings kept from the 2x4 GB kit BIOS configuration.
After 10 days of tests and arriving at these conclusions, I was convinced that either the 8 GB RAM is not compatible with my mobo or that it is partially corrupt (e. g. interleaving in dual channel). Therefore, I ordered another kit with the very same parameters as my good old 2x2 GB from GSkill - 8 GB (2x4 GB) TeamGroup Elite DDR3-1333 DIMM CL9 Dual Kit. To my astonishment, after the first boot with the new 8 GB set, the very same problems reappeared! The symptoms are the same (see the list); the settings don't seem to make any difference; memtest is still OK.
An even more surprising result I achieved with 4x4 GB - I kept one TeamGroup 4 GB stick in channel A and the other one in channel B and then added a Corsair 4 GB stick to each channel; dual channel mode active. Result: stability! (But need to test this config further in order to confirm this).
I tried reflashing the BIOS to F10g, F9 and F7 (is there any newer BIOS version for this mobo?); I cleared the CMOS and the DMI pool data every time.
My question is: how the heck is this happening? Is the mobo kaputt? Is it lacking compatibility? Is this possible anyway?
Hoping to get some input here, thanks!
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Lores....Welcome buddy!
I already know you think this not applicable but that 10 hour Memtest you mentioned,....was this with one stick or Both?.....10 passes per stick is what's required to absolutely rule out a defective memory module, ...........4 years ago I got two CPUs in a row that were shot!....it does happen, mind you it took me about 20 hours to come to that conclusion the second time!
And at the moment I know it's frustrating as hell not knowing what the actually problem is, ..... but you said with 16Gb of memory on board filling all the slots there no problem what so ever!....... in fact, stable as hell!...........is this now the new problem you want fixed , because if it is, I'm lost where you want me to start!....and no, not even station drivers has a later BIOS
Aussie Allan
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Thanks for your quick reply!
I had run memtest over the corsair 8 GB pair overnight. Over the single sticks, I had just run a pass each. Same with the new TeamGroup pair.
I had stated that 4x4 GB be stable. However, I fear I might have been wrong - I'm testing this config right now and have had a few reboots already; they could be attributed to wrong timings etc. (the two kits use different SPD settings) or it could be the same problem, just distributed over 16 GB, 8 of which are in the same channel (which seems to be working correctly). That is the reason why I first thought that 4x4 GB be completely stable (waaay fewer reboots)...
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Right , ...Memtest by it's very nature run each stick at the rating it was released at......this is why you run them individually.
10 passes is an industry ( and home user) unspoken rule that a pass at this level mean the stick are good! and you can absolutely rule this out of the equation.
If you don't do this first, .... it will be nagging at the back of your and my mind that we never really tested these properly, .... and with the issue you have, every thing you do will have to be by the book to find the problem by ruling out one thing at a time.......sorry but I think you should start by testing the memory properly.........(waaay fewer reboots)...could also be pointing to a duff module as it could be spreading the parity so to speak!
the other thing I thought of was , .... PSU, what Wattage ?
Aussie Allan
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You're right; I've now been running memtest on the first Corsair stick since the last post and will have both Corsairs checked completely (10x each) in some 13 hours (if I get the 2x4 GB Corsair kit to work, I'm happy and don't care about TeamGroup; additionally, I've been messing around with that kit for nearly two weeks now, as opposed to TG which I've had for just a day now).
Are you 100% sure that a positive memtest is an ultimate warranty that a given stick is healthy? I'm not sure how relevant the chip is to dual channel operation; I read somewhere that old RAMs used to have problems with rank/channel interleaving (in dual channel mode). Therefore, I could imagine that a stick could pass memtest 10 times but still be unable to operate in dual channel in spite that the motherboard be fine.
The PSU is OCZ StealthXStream2 500W, serving:
Intel Core i5-760, stock MHz
Gigabyte P55-USB3
RAM...
GeForce GTX 460 1 GB (PalitNE5X460SF1102), OCed
HD322GJ + HD103SJ
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I was hoping you weren't going to say that!....... did you know the video card you have , suck down 270Watts under load, leaving 230 watts for the rest of the system at 100% loading........May still not be ultimately the problem, but Bloody good chance it is!
Goggle up a PSU configurator and load in your system, I like to have a head room of about 30% over what they say, .... power supplys drop in performance with age, and two, leave a bit for adding toys down the line!
Persevere with the memtest though, not much graphics here and you may even kill two birds with one stone!
Aussie Allan
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Hm, I strongly doubt that my PSU could be the root of the problem: The PC used to work for half a year without a single issue, although the i5 was OCed to 4x4 GHz 24/7. Since buying the 2x4 GB kit, I have been running the tests at stock CPU settings and I couldn't possibly imagine that the additional 4 GBs be drawing the amount of power that a 50% OC of my CPU used to draw all the time. As far as I know, ddr3's power consumption is not much compared to other PC components. But still - in the following tests, I will be running my i5 at 1,3 GHz and my 460 GTX at 550 MHz to rule out the PSU as culprit - thank you for that remark!
Do you think that CPU clock skew [ps], CPU Clock Drive [mV] or PCI-E Clock Drive [mV] are relevant? I tried adjusting the skew, but the mobo doesn't allow me to choose the direction, so I could just go from 0 ps to ca 600 ps; doing so in 100 ps steps didn't help. I also tried fiddling with the Clock Drive (possible values: 700 mV - 1000 mV in 100 mV steps), but still no go... Which values are recommended in my case?
EDIT:
http://www.antec.outervision.com/index.jsp recommends about 450 W for my config.
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With the PSU at least 6 months old I'm not going to rule it out just yet considering your safety margin is 50 Watts.....and even if it's a real goodie rated at 90%.....you've just blown the margin, but we'll see.
Been out of 775s for too long now to comment really, afraid you would have a better Idea then me.... with all CPU / MB combos being so variable, ...be hard pressed to find anyone to put there money on an answer to that one......push come to shove, ....No! I don't think it's relevant at this stage
Persevere with the memtest........one last thing, have you had the CPU out resiliently ? or anything else for that matter just prior to things going tits-up ?
Aussie Allan
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I guess you're right about the watt margin, I should have went for a bit more. But ATM, my priority is getting one of the 2x4 GB kits to work...
i5 760 is 1156, not 775.
"one last thing, have you had the CPU out resiliently ? or anything else for that matter just prior to things going tits-up ?" - what do you mean? The CPU (as well as the rest of the system) was and is 100% ORTHOS-stable. It's worth noting that I can replace the 4 GB sticks (be it one or two pairs) with my old 2x2 GB kit and all works like a charm again, even if I keep all the settings.
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1156 :o....sorry .....answering to many posts,they start to blend into one after a while!, front lobes going mushie after 11:00 lately, ....and the spelling :-X
What do I mean!....well actually it's nothing personal, ..... Just doing a little mental hunting really, I've put in hundreds of CPUs and resonantly got a speck of solder in the LGA nest from a solder sucker repairing a dry joint........felt a real Plonker when I finally found it .
Get Memtest out of the way, no use getting ahead of our selves.
Aussie Allan
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Okay. The CPU's been sitting in the socket for six months now and it's still stable, so I don't suspect it. What I'm not sure about is the motherboard, but - as you say - let's wait for memtest first... Thanks for your assistance this far!
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Okay, I tested both Corsairs separately with 10+ passes in my rig - no errors whatsoever. On another PC with an i3, I also thoroughly tested the new TeamGroups: same results. Additionally, I've been briefly running the 2x4 GB Corsair pair on that i3 PC and haven't experienced any reboots (but, again, it was just ca half an hour of use).
I got another pair of 2x2 GB DDR3 1333 MHz sticks, from Elixir (stable). They work perfectly in my rig, but as soon as I run them together with my old 2x2 GB G.Skill pair (resulting in 4x2 GB), the instability emerges once again. This leads me to the conclusion that my RAM isn't the culprit... Do you agree?
What I'd very much like to know now is whether such a faulty behaviour could possibly be caused by a corrupt memory controller in my i5. If not, the only option I see is the GA-P55-USB3 mobo... Are there any newer BIOSes than F10g (beta)?
EDIT: (Why can't I modify my posts from yesterday?)
I wasn't able to find any settings to get the 4x4 GB Corsair + TeamGroup 16 GB set to work stably: although they seem to work way better than a single 2x2 GB pair, there still are recurring reboots/BSODs. I've never managed them to run through one standard 3DMark Vantage test under W7 64 bit, although a more GPU stressful and power hungry Furmark seems stable; I can run through a full 3DMark06 test under XP 32 bit. This behaviour doesn't depend on the settings of my GPU or CPU (3DMark Vantage also fails with my GPU at 550 MHz (instead of ca 800 MHz) and CPU at 1,3 GHz (instead of 4 GHz) undervolted at some 0.8-0.9 V (via auto)). With one 2x2 GB pair (be it G.Skill or Elixir), the test is no problem whatsoever. With 4x4 GB, the PC also sometimes reboots without any considerable load (no running foreground apps). I suspect that it had seemed rather stable because there were proportionally fewer inter-channel operations with 4x4 GB than in a straight-forward 2x4 GB config.
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Okay, I tested both Corsairs separately with 10+ passes in my rig - no errors whatsoever. On another PC with an i3, I also thoroughly tested the new TeamGroups: same results. Additionally, I've been briefly running the 2x4 GB Corsair pair on that i3 PC and haven't experienced any reboots (but, again, it was just ca half an hour of use).
I got another pair of 2x2 GB DDR3 1333 MHz sticks, from Elixir (stable). They work perfectly in my rig, but as soon as I run them together with my old 2x2 GB G.Skill pair (resulting in 4x2 GB), the instability emerges once again. This leads me to the conclusion that my RAM isn't the culprit... Do you agree?
A) Not 100% but Yes , I tend to agree with your findings, ....why I said not 100% is even though there identical timings there still from different manufactures...........with dual and triple channel ...even a different batch from the same manufacture can get different results....hence dual and tri kits on the market.........
What I'd very much like to know now is whether such a faulty behaviour could possibly be caused by a corrupt memory controller in my i5. If not, the only option I see is the GA-P55-USB3 mobo...
A) where down too CPU and M/B (channel/memory controller)........with the PSU as a long shot outside........good to get the Memory out of the equation though..... next one to rule out would be the CPU unfortunately..........Does your mates friendship stretch far enough for some Mobo time with your processor ? Failing this another CPU in the problem board could give the answer too.
Are there any newer BIOSes than F10g (beta)?
.....A) not that I'm aware of...station drivers is the cutting edge of new releases and they show F10g as well!
Conclusion so far....you need to test the other bits and bobs but CPU , possible but not likely, starting to smell a motherboard hunt coming shortly.
Gotta call it how I see it.......see how the CPU stands up on another board or the other option I mentianed.
Aussie Allan
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Okay, thanks. So I guess I'll have to look around for some CPU/mobo to rule out my i5...
What troubles me is that memtest doesn't show any errors whatso. Are there any other mem testing progs designed for dual channel? I heard that memtest's tests 5 and 8 utilise dual channel, but that doesn't seem to be enough...
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Since I've replaced my i5 with an i3, all has been working like a charm (seemingly, at least). I will do further testing and will also try to run my i5 on another motherboard.
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I think we are down too.........because the i3 runs like a charm on the suspect board......it point to the i5.......or BIOS/M/B compatibility with the i5
go with what you talked about to further rule out the next bit!
Aussie Allan
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I've got bad news: I've been testing my i5 760 on a cheap two-slot Biostar mobo with 2x2 GB Elixir and 2x4 GB TeamGroup (with my Nvidia 460 GTX + 500W OCZ PSU) - and both configurations seem (after initial tests) to work stably.
So: both the i5 and the 2x4 GB pairs, when isolated, behave as expected. When used on the Biostar mobo, the same. When the primary Gigabyte mobo is used with an i3 and one of the 2x4 GB pairs, the same. When the Gigabyte mobo is used with the i5 and one of the 2x4 GB pairs, or the 4x4 GB set, or the 4x2 GB set - it doesn't work!!!
It's still true that none of the isolating tests (memtest for ram, orthos for cpu, furmark for gpu) ever in any configuration show any errors.
Despair.
Any ideas?
(Unfortunately, I don't have any other mobo or any other i5 to test with).
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Well I think the MoBo's toast with the i5, But great we got a result...... before you RMA or replace the dogs Frisbee......I'll PM DM (Dark Mantis Moderator) to cast his eye through this thread and see if he can glean anything I missed..... wait for his reply before giving Frodo his new toy
Speak soon!
Update:....the Boy's off line ATM....He'll get there though.........Aussie Allan
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Can't wait, thanks!
(Still testing the i5 + 2x4 GB TG + 460 GTX + OCZ 500W PSU on the Biostar mobo and, heck, hoping to see a BSOD...)
EDIT:
After hours of testing, I can say that the very same config, but with that cheap Biostar mobo instead of my GA-P55-USB3, is stable.
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Hi sorry for the delay. It would sound as if the motherboard is faulty, possibly bent pins on the CPU socket. Anyway it needs to be RMAd. ;)
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I hold DMs opinion higher then a lot of motherboard technocrats.......so Frodo the Dog has a new Frisbee as far as we can say with out actually touching it
At least, you can go over to shopping mode mindset and start looking afresh at all the goodies out there!......it's a mine field ;)
Aussie Allan
P.S ... thanks for that DM
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Thanks for your advice. However, how can you explain that the GA-P55-USB3 works perfectly (in every stick combination!) when equipped with the i3 instead of the i5?
(I'm afraid that sending in a component for RMA and not getting it's faultiness confirmed can be quite expensive...).
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This is when I keep a new friend and get a "Karma", or get dragged in-front of the wall and shot!
Little voice in my head says BIOS, but I checked and there's others out there that have and use this combination.
All I can say is,.......... really nicely, document your findings in a logical form and present it to Gigabyte Customer Services/RMA......you could even drop this thread/post on them........you have more of a chance with Giga then any other board manufacture.
To be Pro-active, the only person Employed by Gigabyte is the Administrator (runn3R) on this forum, you could try PM,ing him and ask his advise as to the best way forward, He has the power to make the sun go down early!
A lot of people out there think we (me,Dark Mantis, Absic,Bill,ect) are employed indirectly by Giga.........the only thing I have got so far from Gigabyte was a bollocking because some low-life bustered his PC and needed to kick someone in the teeth......
Most of the time I/we don't even know what country where talking too as there's no flag half the time or any profile.
Hope you get a happy ending...........post back with what happens if you can !
Aussie Allan
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OK. Yes, I've tried the F7 through F10g BIOSes and have also done a research and seen quite a few people running my config...
I will try to get hold of another i5 if I can...
Thanks.
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If I remember rightly the i5 chip runs fine on another motherboard. If so it is down to this mobo or it's BIOS. You could try doing an extended clear of the CMOS followed by a loading of the Optimised BIOS Defaults.
Please follow these instructions exactly.
Remove the power cable from the mains supply and then press the power switch on the case for a few seconds just to drain any residual energy in the PSU capacitors.
Once done remove the motherboard battery for at least 6 hours before replacing it.
Next plug back into the mains supply and boot.
You will now need to enter the BIOS by pressing DEL and load Optimised BIOS Defaults.
Make any other changes to the BIOS settings to suit your self like disabling the floppy drive, disabling the full screen logo and making the HDD the primary boot device and then press F10 to save and exit.
If this fails to fix it still it would be worth checking for bent pins on the CPU socket also.
Take all the usual anti-static precautions.
Very carefully remove the heatsink and fan. Probably a slight twisting motion is best to release the two as the thermal paste can act like a glue.
Once off remove the CPU taking extreme care both physically and electrically(static) and place somewhere safe.
Make sure that the lighting is very good and even.
Now scrutinise the socket for any pins that are out of alignment, even slightly.
If in any doubt whatsoever take a couple of macro (close up) photos of the socket and post them on here for us to check.
Also look at the bottom of the CPU at the lands (little copper circles) and make sure that there is a mark in each somewhere near the centre.
If there are any missing marks or any of the pins are obviously bent then that is your problem.
Before refitting the CPU clean off all residue of the old thermal paste and the same on the heatsink and then apply a small amount (about the size of a grain of rice) to the centre of the CPU once it is inserted in the socket.
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@DM, thank you for your guide. Although I've tried CCMOS with DMI pool data purge already, I will give the extended clear another go. For that, if I understand correctly, will I need the PC to stay powered off for 6+ hours. I will try that tonight.
I had already inspected the socket and it had seemed all right to me. Plus: with the i3 in place of my i5, the rig was fully stable. I will have another glance at it soon, though.
Moreover, I'm hoping to grasp an i5 750 with a P55 motherboard (the Biostar mobo Biostar H55 HD was H55) tomorrow. I plan on swapping the CPUs: testing my i5 760 in the other P55 mobo and testing that i5 750 in my GA-P55-USB3. I will have to return that hardware on the same day - any advice as to further tests/configs?
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You are very welcome. Try making sure that the BIOS that you have loaded supports the CPU as sometimes this can be a problem that is easilly missed.
Yes the power needs to be completely disconnected from the system for the whole time (overnight) and the battery removed at the same time. I know it sounds crazy but for some reason sometimes this will work even after the usual method has failed.
If it is a pin problem it is very easy to miss a slightly bent pin but that is all it can take. Some close up clear photos can help if you are unsure.
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I've flashed the BIOS versions F7 through the newest F10g (beta) and people are running such rigs on these BIOSes without problems, so I rule this out.
The rig used to be stable for six months; then I bought the Corsair and then the TeamGroup 2x4 GB pair which failed. The very first time for me to physically fiddle with the CPU after installing it 6 months ago was when I replaced it with the i3 (which worked!). So I don't suspect the pins. Still, I'll have a look at them tomorrow (hopefully replacing the i5 760 with that i5 750).
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Okay, I've got some news.
1. The extended clear didn't make a difference.
2. There are no bent pins on my mobo.
3. There are marks at the lands of my i5.
4. I've spent all day testing my rig with another one (a P55 mobo from Asus + i5 750; fully stable). Current results:
a. My rig seems to work flawlessly with any RAM when equipped with the i5 750.
b. The other rig (Asus) seems to work flawlessly with any RAM when equipped with my i5 760.
c. My rig reattains its instability when reequipped with my i5 760.
d. What the heck is this?!
I've now kept each CPU in the other mobo (my i5 760 in the Asus and the i5 750 in my Gigabyte) and am going to do further real life testing on both rigs. Any more advice?
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The only thing I can suggest is to make sure that both rigs are as minimal as possible in what is attached to them. Try to use Motherboard, PSU, CPU, HSF,One stick of ram in first slot, HDD, GPU, Buzzer, keyboard and mouse. This keeps the chances of other issues as low as possible.
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After another 24 h, both rigs keep seeming to be stable. I suspect they are stable.
How can this be? I was convinced that the i5 760 was just an i5 750 with an increased multiplier (20 -> 21). But in my case, the Gigabyte motherboard - when used with 2x4 GB RAM - is obviously not compatible with my i5 760, but fully compatible with an i5 750...
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I really would pull Gigabyte into the picture with a detailed Email......you never know, nothing will happen if you never ask !
Aussie Allan
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Hm, I will try that...
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Hey there,
Is there any solution than RMA the motherboard? I got the EXACTLY SAME issue as Lores', and my setup is GA-P55-USB3 with i5-760.
I may not be RMA it since I have used the combination for 2 yrs. :(
I've seen lots of reboot since I brought it and equipped with 2x4G G-Skill RAMs, then the reboot disappeared when another 2x4G Kingston RAMs are added. Now the issue comes back as I added a Nvidia 660 graphic card few weeks ago...
ANY HELP IS HIGHLY APPRECIATED.
Thanks,
Jacky