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Mobo flashing bios by itself

ferk

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Mobo flashing bios by itself
« on: November 29, 2018, 10:05:11 am »
Hello, I'm back here with more issues... After breaking my old mobo I ended up buying a new one, Gigabyte B85-HD3, which seemed to fit my needs and I got it for 37€ on Aliexpress during 11/11 discounts.

However it's been a pain in the ass since the day I got it. Everything works fine except because this motherboard keeps flashing the backup bios into the main one by it's own, similar to what happened to me in my old motherboard, except that in that case the process failed, in this new one it is a success and I lose all the bios settings mostly every day (it seems to happen randomly).

I don't know if it's Gigabyte and it's boards (I can't be that unlucky... right?), or something in my pc triggering a bios flash (how?!?!?!?! I would understand if it doesn't boot, but a bios flash?!?!) but I'm losing my mind and the solution in my old mobo doesn't work here. The board came with the F11 (latest) bios installed, I tried with F10 and F9, it doesn't matter, eventually the motherboard flash the F11 version back. It is not something badly configured in the bios either, I tried my settings and optimized defaults, doesn't matter, keeps happening.

Apart from that everything seems to work fine, the bios doesn't seem corrupted, but I don't think I have the patience to set everything from scratch almost daily. And the seller in Aliexpress doesn't understand anything (or doesn't want to).

Any ideas? I'm run out of them and I don't know what to do next.

Regards
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 10:06:43 am by ferk »

ferk

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Re: Mobo flashing bios by itself
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2018, 12:15:23 am »
So, I've been thinking, and I have a new theory. It is strange that I have the same issue with two different motherboards from the same manufacturer, it can't be a coincidence... Well it can, but as I said, I would be quite unlucky.

What if this issue is triggered by my case power switch/cable? Since I have this case I was never able to force a shutdown in any of the motherboards I ever had (pushing the power button for several seconds until it shuts down) because the motherboard turned off, but turned itself on two seconds after, as if the power button was still being used.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm reading on several forums and according to this Gigabyte backup bios can be triggered by pressing the power button for some seconds. Perhaps that's my issue? Maybe my case has been malfunctioning for ever whether is the cables or the button and in the case of Gigabyte, that causes the backup bios to perform a bios flash.

When I fixed this issue in my old motherboard, I remember I only flashed one of the bios, I don't remember everything exactly but that motherboard had a hardware switch to run dual or single bios mode, if I left that switch on single mode the fix could have been that, as there was only one bios enabled, the backup one couldn't be triggered, and not the flash as I stated in the thread.

I don't know, this is my more plausible explanation for my issue. When I reboot the system from Windows it doesn't happen, it only happens when the pc is turned off and I turn it on (and not always). Unfortunately I don't know how to test it, I would need another case and all of them are in use right now.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 12:19:14 am by ferk »

shadowsports

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Re: Mobo flashing bios by itself
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2018, 03:50:36 pm »
BIOS' don't flash themselves on their own.  Gigabyte includes a BIOS update software in its MB Utility Software.  If you installed this and enabled the automatically check for updates, it can and will update your BIOS when it runs.  As far as doing it automatically, without you telling it to do so, no, but once its enabled then it checks for updates.

Motherboards that lose their BIOS settings.  There are usually 3 causes for this.  First is a dead or weak MB battery.  Second, weak or dying PSU, and 3rd, power issues or fluctuations at your location.  A UPS or at the very least a power strip is always recommended. 

If your board is consistently booting from the back up BIOS, then the main BIOS is corrupt and was never properly flashed in the first place.

If the board you purchased was used, then you were taking a risk and must understand that you may have purchased someone else's problem.
Z390 AORUS PRO (F10) \850w, 9900K, 32GB GSkill TriZ RGB - 16-18-18-38, RTX 2080 FTW3 Ultra, 960 Pro_m.2, W10 1903
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ferk

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Re: Mobo flashing bios by itself
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2018, 05:54:39 pm »
BIOS' don't flash themselves on their own.  Gigabyte includes a BIOS update software in its MB Utility Software.  If you installed this and enabled the automatically check for updates, it can and will update your BIOS when it runs.  As far as doing it automatically, without you telling it to do so, no, but once its enabled then it checks for updates.

Motherboards that lose their BIOS settings.  There are usually 3 causes for this.  First is a dead or weak MB battery.  Second, weak or dying PSU, and 3rd, power issues or fluctuations at your location.  A UPS or at the very least a power strip is always recommended. 

If your board is consistently booting from the back up BIOS, then the main BIOS is corrupt and was never properly flashed in the first place.

If the board you purchased was used, then you were taking a risk and must understand that you may have purchased someone else's problem.

Hello, thanks for your reply. But I'm still unsure of what it is happening here. Did you check my second post? Perhaps it is not flashing by itself but I'm telling the motherboard, accidentally (with a malfunctioning case or something), to flash the backup bios, as the method #1 of the link says. It is that possible?

What are the odds of buying two motherboards from the same manufacturer in the past six months and all four bios were corrupted? My issues are really weird. In my old motherboard, which luckily had a led error screen and hardware switches for the bios, the error message was 'bios flash failed', and I wasn't flashing anything, and it was bought from a close friend of me since more than 10 years,  so, as reliable as it can be.

Now this new motherboard is pretty basic, doesn't have leds or anything, and I can't know which bios is the motherboard using. But if like you say I'm booting from the backup bios, then the backup bios is also corrupted just like the old motherboard. Because I did a series of turning off/turning on the pc with about 30 seconds between each try starting with F9 bios (main bios??) and sooner or later this issue happens, then I kept doing the same without changing anything in the bios and the F11 version (backup bios?) and sooner or later it happens again, I never get to see the F9 bios version.

shadowsports

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Re: Mobo flashing bios by itself
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2018, 07:00:14 pm »
Hi,
Please see my reply here.

https://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?topic=22948.msg113945#msg113945

This is probably what's happened in your case as well, not identical, but you seem to be at the same place.  Your system is constantly trying to recover itself unsuccessfully.   
Z390 AORUS PRO (F10) \850w, 9900K, 32GB GSkill TriZ RGB - 16-18-18-38, RTX 2080 FTW3 Ultra, 960 Pro_m.2, W10 1903
Z370-HD3P (F5) \750w, 8350K, 8GB LPX 3200 - 16-18-18-38, GTX 970 FTW SC, Intel SSD, 2TB RAID1, W10 1903
Z97X-UD5H \850w, 4790K, 16GB Vengeance, GTX 970 FTW SC, RAID0

ferk

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Re: Mobo flashing bios by itself
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2018, 07:33:21 pm »
Hi,
Please see my reply here.

https://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?topic=22948.msg113945#msg113945

This is probably what's happened in your case as well, not identical, but you seem to be at the same place.  Your system is constantly trying to recover itself unsuccessfully.   

As you pointed out, it's obviously not identical, I always see the Gigabyte logo and I can power on the pc 10 times with no issues or 5 times with two failures, I haven't been able to isolate what is exactly happening during those boots, it seems completely random. And I never stay five or six consecutive tries without booting, when it happens it's always one failed try, then a working system next one, just like with my first motherboard.

So, do you recommend me to try to flash the same bios (F11 I guess) instead of a different version? I think that's what I did the first time, but the flash took way too little time compared to the other times I flashed so it might have been unsuccesful. I don't remember trying it again.

ferk

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Re: Mobo flashing bios by itself
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 08:21:09 pm »
Hi,
Please see my reply here.

https://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?topic=22948.msg113945#msg113945

This is probably what's happened in your case as well, not identical, but you seem to be at the same place.  Your system is constantly trying to recover itself unsuccessfully.   

As you pointed out, it's obviously not identical, I always see the Gigabyte logo and I can power on the pc 10 times with no issues or 5 times with two failures, I haven't been able to isolate what is exactly happening during those boots, it seems completely random. And I never stay five or six consecutive tries without booting, when it happens it's always one failed try, then a working system next one, just like with my first motherboard.

So, do you recommend me to try to flash the same bios (F11 I guess) instead of a different version? I think that's what I did the first time, but the flash took way too little time compared to the other times I flashed so it might have been unsuccesful. I don't remember trying it again.

Quoting myself for new info; I tried your option 1 en the other post, flashed the version I think the backup is in (F11) after doing a clear cmos and battery removal. Booted fine two or three times, played a bit of a game, then shut off the pc, but it inmediately turnet itself on, failed and then, as always, second boot was succesful but without my settings in the bios. Don't know what else to do.

shadowsports

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Re: Mobo flashing bios by itself
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 03:25:10 pm »
Am gleaning additional information each time you reply.

So the system isn't failing to boot each time you start, but only say 2 times out of every 10 starts?  This was not clear previously. 

You also stated that the system restarts itself after shutdown is initiated?  Does this occur every time, or randomly similar to the "recovery" that happens?

While this appears to be a hardware related issue, you might want to disable automatic restart in the OS to ensure there isn't a software issue causing the behavior. (this is unlikely but possible).

I also recommend reviewing your System Event Viewer for possible errors or information that might coincide with the problem (timeline). 

Are you sure your hardware is up to snuff?  Power Supply is in good condition, not weak or old.  Sometimes they die slowly.  Output on one or more rails fluctuates causing instability, unexpected restarts, etc. 

What else can cause this?  Overclocking (CPU or memory).  Or, using memory which is not on the QVL for your board.  Very hard to diagnose something like this over the internet.     
Z390 AORUS PRO (F10) \850w, 9900K, 32GB GSkill TriZ RGB - 16-18-18-38, RTX 2080 FTW3 Ultra, 960 Pro_m.2, W10 1903
Z370-HD3P (F5) \750w, 8350K, 8GB LPX 3200 - 16-18-18-38, GTX 970 FTW SC, Intel SSD, 2TB RAID1, W10 1903
Z97X-UD5H \850w, 4790K, 16GB Vengeance, GTX 970 FTW SC, RAID0

ferk

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Re: Mobo flashing bios by itself
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 06:14:04 pm »
Am gleaning additional information each time you reply.

So the system isn't failing to boot each time you start, but only say 2 times out of every 10 starts?  This was not clear previously. 

You also stated that the system restarts itself after shutdown is initiated?  Does this occur every time, or randomly similar to the "recovery" that happens?

While this appears to be a hardware related issue, you might want to disable automatic restart in the OS to ensure there isn't a software issue causing the behavior. (this is unlikely but possible).

I also recommend reviewing your System Event Viewer for possible errors or information that might coincide with the problem (timeline). 

Are you sure your hardware is up to snuff?  Power Supply is in good condition, not weak or old.  Sometimes they die slowly.  Output on one or more rails fluctuates causing instability, unexpected restarts, etc. 

What else can cause this?  Overclocking (CPU or memory).  Or, using memory which is not on the QVL for your board.  Very hard to diagnose something like this over the internet.   

Over the past few days I have isolated what is causing the issue with the BIOS removed/backup BIOS or whatever is happening. It only happens when the DisplayPort cable is connected to the pci-e GPU. I tried like a hundred times to boot from the igpu or only connected with HDMI and DVI and it worked fine each time.

I was provided a newer BIOS than the available in the website by Gigabyte to test if it could be fixed, but it didn't work. At the same time EVGA couldn't tell me anything, so I don't know if the cable was faulty, the gpu is faulty or the motherboard somehow struggles with this GPU or what. I went yesterday to buy a new cable but the store didn't have any, so I'll have to order it online.

About the pc turning itself on; this past week it's been turning itself on when I shut it off. It tends to happen when it's powered on for some time, I suspect it's something I have messed with in Windows but this is harder to test, as I only have one chance every X hours. It doesn't reboot itself, doesn't turn off itself, the PSU seems stable... But I don't know.

edit: anything specific that I should look for in the event log?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 06:21:05 pm by ferk »