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AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.

Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2010, 09:44:40 am »
Since the MB is cheaper to change than the RAM - need I say more.     Also, you can get an MB with a newer chip set now for a good price.

Is there any special feature the GA770TA-UD3 has which means you have to use that MB.   It isn't an expensive MB.

I used the GA770TA-UD3 because I wanted ESATA, USB3 and the coxial/fibre optic SPDIF.    

If you change the MB, remember to check if the memory is QA'd first ;)

If want Gigabyte tech support, you'll have to contact them directly as it looks like they don't post back on this forum.    To be fair, they gave me an updated BIOS to try which I never got around to testing as I didn't have time, for me it was just quicker to change the MB as it wasn't that expensive.      My random memory errors were too time consuming and for me it was too risky.   

At least absic has a tried and tested list of components if you want to upgrade.



« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 09:54:58 am by IceColdBeer »

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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2010, 05:00:11 am »
No there is nothing that special about this board that made it my only choice. Other than that ram issue, it works fine and I have decided to work around that. I was building a new pc and needed a board that could OC, PCI, SATA3 and this happened to have pretty good reviews and on sale so I chose it.
It is less hassle to1 switch ram than to unhook everything, re-install Win and  other software and then the hassle of Win 7 prob wanting re-authorized.
Anyway, over with now unless it develops some other issue.
I am curious  if they gave you a BIOS different or newer than F3.... last month, their tech support never mentioned anything newer than F3

absic

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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2010, 07:14:21 am »
Quote
their tech support never mentioned anything newer than F3

One of the big problems with any Tech Support is that, they won't tell you about something until you scream and make a fuss or, they have tested it to death, say it's fine, released it, then seem very surprised when it doesn't work the way they said it would.

As with my own GA-790XTA-UD4 there is a BETA BIOS that I am running that is not on general release yet. I am prepared to take the risk and BETA test these things out but you have to be careful as doing so could really screw your system up. That is why Gigabyte and other companies don't just release them. I did try out the F3d Beta BIOS for the GA-770TA-UD3 (I have e-mailed it to you) but it didn't make any noticeable difference to the way the memory/CPU were interacting and as it is still only a BETA BIOS, I didn't include it in my full testing or in the results.
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2010, 03:02:41 pm »
Just saw this post. Very good information. Thanks for taking the time testing.


BR,
Skinfaxe

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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2010, 03:13:35 pm »
Still researching the variables on the possible issues with running faster RAM and came across this article: http://www.ilsistemista.net/index.php/hardware-analysis/3-the-phenom-phenomii-memory-controller-and-the-ganged-vs-unganged-question.html with regard to the question of using Ganged (Dual channel) or Unganged (single channel) mode. At the end of this article they ask: So, what memory mode we should use? and answer it: All in all, I think that the unganged mode is the preferred one.

It is pretty heavy reading in some parts but, it is worth going through especially if you want a greater understanding of this subject and why AMD recommend running in Unganged Mode.
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2010, 03:08:16 pm »
I have added a new thread regarding this subject. Please check here for latest information: http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php/topic,2515.0.html
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2010, 05:36:28 pm »
Thanks to absic115 for his efforts!  :)
ZX-S & C64 are still my favourites ;-)

Gavster

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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2010, 11:16:52 am »
I can see from the test data that absic has found issue in the relationship between the CPU memory controller and DDR3 frequency when it goes above 1333 MHz, but what I am not understanding what is the precise reason for the problem is. In all of the tests run by absic, as the memory controller is a bit  unknown or is a black box whose workings are not measurable or transparent.

In a research paper from Corsair (AN806: Memory Upgrade Resource Guide), they suggest that running 4-modules of RAM puts "extra load" on the memory controller, but what that "load" is comprised of is not explained.

Quote
When the memory controller speed is increased for overclocking, it simply cannot manage the same amount of memory at that overclocked speed for proper stable communication with the CPU.

Here are some possible reasons (speculations really) for the problems that higher RAM frequency causes (1333 vs. 1600 MHz):
  • the voltage is increased beyond the capacity of the memory controller;
  • more bandwidth is used for data throughput than the memory controller can handle;
  • more heat is generated, causing the memory controller to fail;
  • a combination of all these causes "interference".

I am sceptical that the memory controller is the problem if it can't be explained why it is the problem. The reason why I am sceptical is that my CPU has Dual-channel architecture, and in any case, the integrated memory controller (IMC) should enable the CPU to handle higher RAM frequencies anyway.

Basically, I just don't understand what is the precise reason for CPU/RAM bottleneck. It seems to me that if we could understand what is the precise cause of the bottleneck (rather than speculate), then perhaps we could adjust the Bios to achieve a theoretical RAM frequency maximum. Any ideas what causes the bottleneck?
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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2010, 11:42:11 am »
Hi,

Unfortunately AMD themselves have not clearly explained the problems with the Memory controller. All I have managed to find out is that during the design stage of developing the AM3 CPU they discovered that RAM running above 1333MHz created problems that couldn't be easily resolved and, as part of the design process, they designed the Memory controller's architecture to this speed or less. This doesn't mean that you can't run above 1333MHZ just that AMD do not guarantee stability if you do so. When I spoke to AMD about a possible BIOS fix they told me that it wasn't a BIOS issue but the design of the processors. When I tried to get more information regarding this they just reaffirmed that it was by design and wouldn't go into any further details than that.

Quote
When the memory controller speed is increased for overclocking, it simply cannot manage the same amount of memory at that overclocked speed for proper stable communication with the CPU.
I guess the easiest way to try and explain this is if you consider the information passing from the RAM to the CPU as water instead of electricity. If you have a river flowing at a steady rate the banks of the river contain the water without issue. However, if there is a sudden deluge of rain the riverbanks can't contain the increased flow of water and there is a flood that can cause a lot of damage

In the same way the Memory Controller has maximum throughput that it can control without issue. Increasing the amount and speed of the RAM causes a flood of information that the Memory Controller just can't handle, causing it to fall over.
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

Dark Mantis

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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2010, 02:18:15 pm »
Another reason Absic is that in all electronics the higher you push the frequency the more heat is generated so that could well be the reason.
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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2010, 09:21:27 pm »
Well... my guess is that someone at AMD didn't think that DDR3 would evolve quite this quickly. They probably designed these processors thinking that 1333Mhz would be enough for the nearest future and I'll bet that the new processors from AMD won't have this problem anymore ::).

I think this is a bandwidth issue, btw. If it were heat then better cooling on the CPU should solve this? Before that, wouldn't CPU temp rise if the IMC were to overheat?

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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2010, 09:27:27 pm »
Quote
If it were heat then better cooling on the CPU should solve this? Before that, wouldn't CPU temp rise if the IMC were to overheat?

Not necessarily. We are talking about  on a microscale here and the heat buildup could be very locallised and damage the controller circuit well before building up enough heat to show on the rest of the chip. Besides it is really a moot point as whatever the reason there is nothing that can be done to rectify it now the chips are built.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 09:33:55 pm by Dark Mantis »
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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2010, 05:58:17 pm »
Well... my guess is that someone at AMD didn't think that DDR3 would evolve quite this quickly. They probably designed these processors thinking that 1333Mhz would be enough for the nearest future and I'll bet that the new processors from AMD won't have this problem anymore ::).

According to this review from The Tech Report
 
Quote
The new Phenom IIs officially support DDR3 memory at up to 1333MHz, but the multipliers are present for 1600MHz operation..

Admittedly, they don't quote their sources, so may be it is idle speculation. Likewise, I don't buy into the idea that the heat builds up on a microscale causing localised damage, as DDR3 iss not connected to the CPU directly, so the memory controller does not "burn out" like a fuse. The HyperTransport allows the CPU and the DDR3 to run at different frequencies.
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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2010, 11:30:47 am »
As the quote from Tech Support states the multipliers are in place to run 1600 Mhz RAM and on my own 1090T I have been able to do this but, it is not recommend by AMD and I now run at 1333Mhz.

The questions that you want answered are, I think, beyond the scope of this Forum and you might be better contacting AMD directly. You can find there contact details from the AMD website here: http://www.amd.com/uk/Pages/AMDHomePage.aspx
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

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Re: AMD AM3 CPU's and Memory Speed Issues above 1333 Mhz.
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2012, 09:20:45 am »
Although the Bulldozer series should be safe to use 1600 I`ve had the issue that I had to manually set the RAM speed and timings. If I only set the RAM multiplier to 8x it jumps back on reboot to 1333 together with the described error message. I have to manually set the timings to keep the 8x.
My system seems to run stable with these settings though. There have been crashes but they seem to be related to other settings.
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