A query about having two Windforce graphics cards only millimeters apart.

[Fierce Guppy]

I'm hunting for two GTX 570 cards to fit into my Asus Rampage II Extreme motherboard.   The thing about this motherboard is that it has a PCI slot where a x16 PCI-E slot would have ideally placed for a nice comfortable gap between two 2-slot cards.  The 3rd and last x16 PCI-Slot has connectors below it for external I/O and might get in the way of the card.  I did a trial run with my GTX 295.  The plugs got in the way.

The range of Gigabyte GTX 570s available in New Zealand consists of the reference model and the Gigabyte GV-N570OC-13I.  So, what are those tri-fan Windforce cards like working right up close to each other in x16 slot 1 and 2?   Too noisy?  Too hot?  Will it ruin my gaming experience with BSODs?

Tony.

PSU:  Toughpower 1200W
Case: Thermaltake Armor+ (VH6000SWA)

[Grozdan]

First, I'm not a fan of SLI/Cross solutions because they always need more power and produce more heat! I prefer one stronger card. One GTX 570 should be enough for quite some time now for max. gaming experience. I'd rather spend that money for something else (raid of 2 ssds, if you don't already have it )

But I will try to help you out. If you are going for SLI/Cross you should consider that it is always better to have as much space between them as you can get because if they are almost together, the upper card will always be hotter and more louder than the lower one! Windforce cooling system is awesome and you can't make mistake with it but for SLI/Cross solutions, sometimes it's better to use stock graphic cards (and even though they are stock, they still have to have very good cooling) because cooling system on stock cards always puts the hot air outside (only) the case and thus lowering inside temperatures. But if card's running hot when stock you should evade it...
Windforce puts some of the hot air inside the case and that could be a problem.

Either way there shouldn't be any problems even if the cards are up close because I witnessed a couple of SLI solutions where the cards are close to each other and beside some higher temperatures there weren't any problems...

[Dark Mantis]

If you must run SLI and it is as close as you say then the only other optioon is to watercool them both. Even if you only watercool the GPUs and leave the CPU on air cooling it would make a huge difference to the noise, performance and heat. You would be able to expel all the hot air right outside the case helping to keep all the other components cooler as well.

[Fierce Guppy]

First, I'm not a fan of SLI/Cross solutions because they always need more power and produce more heat! I prefer one stronger card. One GTX 570 should be enough for quite some time now for max. gaming experience. I'd rather spend that money for something else (raid of 2 ssds, if you don't already have it )

But I will try to help you out. If you are going for SLI/Cross you should consider that it is always better to have as much space between them as you can get because if they are almost together, the upper card will always be hotter and more louder than the lower one! Windforce cooling system is awesome and you can't make mistake with it but for SLI/Cross solutions, sometimes it's better to use stock graphic cards (and even though they are stock, they still have to have very good cooling) because cooling system on stock cards always puts the hot air outside (only) the case and thus lowering inside temperatures. But if card's running hot when stock you should evade it...
Windforce puts some of the hot air inside the case and that could be a problem.

Either way there shouldn't be any problems even if the cards are up close because I witnessed a couple of SLI solutions where the cards are close to each other and beside some higher temperatures there weren't any problems...

My case has a 250mm fan on the side window but I have no idea if the airflow is concentrated enough to have more than just a negligible effect on two cards just millimeters apart.  Geez... You've given me more stuff to think about, especially a powerful single card solution.  The reference cards I am not keen on, primarily because if having them so close together produces more heat and noise than I can stand I'd have an impossible task fitting one of those with their full cover shrouds into the 3rd x16 slot with the I/O plugs getting in the way.  At least with the Gigabyte Winforce cards I'd have a fighting chance.  And of course the latter are sexier by far which is important when the case has a side window.

OK, sooo... A single powerful, ~quiet~ 3-slot DCII GTX 580 could be the answer as well as two sexy Windforce GTX 570s.  I think the pixel pumping power of the latter configuration has more impact on me than do the worries.

Thanks for your feedback, Grozdan.  It has helped.

[Fierce Guppy]

If you must run SLI and it is as close as you say then the only other optioon is to watercool them both. Even if you only watercool the GPUs and leave the CPU on air cooling it would make a huge difference to the noise, performance and heat. You would be able to expel all the hot air right outside the case helping to keep all the other components cooler as well.

There's no watercooled GTX 570 of any brand available in New Zealand.  The only watercooled graphics card here is the EVGA GeForce GTX 580 FTW Hydro Copper 2 and it is priced at $1079 (NZD).  The options for adding watercooling bits to a reference card is scant, incomplete, and very costly.  New Zealand is not a good place to be for building a watercooled rig.

Tony.

[Aussie Allan]

    Guppy! ..... good advice from Grozdan

   "Think of it like this and save yourself some grief"

    Add together the combined price of those two sexy Windforce GTX 570s............and go out and buy a single,Nuclear powered,  kick-ass card......1.5 or even 2Gb of dedicated video memory.......you'll probably find the real world difference to be marginal at worst over 2, 460/470 cards in SLI

  and Half the worry of two cards in piggy-back mode........if there high performance, or SOC, or even OC..........one's gunna get cooked that close together..........unless you can get at-least one PCI-E slot between them

  250mm fans look inexpressive......but can't fill a plastic bag.........hard to explain but there good at suppling air if there's little or no pressure in the case .... a good set of exhaust fans are paramount to make this combination work ..... high end video cards need a good supply of cool air.....lots of it.......getting rid of that air is more important in keeping the cards from turning the inside of your case into an oven within minutes.

  Temp related BSODs are a proverbial PITA......(Pain in the Ass)....

  Aussie Allan

[Dark Mantis]

You don't seem to have mentioned what motherboard you are planning to use it/them on. Is there any other option even a x8 slot that you could use instead of the bottom slot ?

[Aussie Allan]

 
      Hidden in the sig....Asus Rampage II Extreme  ....AA

[Dark Mantis]

Oh yes, I missed that. 

Just wondered if he could use a different slot even an x8 slot would do if it gave more space for airflow between the cards.

[Grozdan]

@Guppy - No problem, we are all here to help each other...

Putting GTX 570 into PCI-E x8  maybe isn't the best solution because x8 slot might be bottle neck for that card. As I am aware, everything stronger than GTX 460 needs x16 slot to operate at max performance...

[Dark Mantis]

Hi Grozdan,

I think I would be prepared to put up with a slight bottlenecking, if that's correct (must admit I haven't done the math) on the second card of a SLI setup, to keep the heat and noise down but fair point.

[Aussie Allan]

@Guppy - No problem, we are all here to help each other...

Putting GTX 570 into PCI-E x8  maybe isn't the best solution because x8 slot might be bottle neck for that card. As I am aware, everything stronger than GTX 460 needs x16 slot to operate at max performance...

  And My Grandma told if I played with my willy, it would fall off!...... Thank god she was wrong Too

  on a  dual 460 SLI you will notice NO difference between 16x16,.....16x8 and even 8x8.....even with 4xAA......only at 5760x1200 will you see a ever so slight drop but only in some games.......

  Even with a 570 card in SLI on 8x8......with 5760x1200 and all eye candy turned on......7% drop in performance was all that was recorded..... at lower resolutions..........marginal at best.

  If you want a detailes analisis......here's a read of a hands on test.....

       http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/08/23/gtx_480_sli_pcie_bandwidth_perf_x16x16_vs_x8x8/

  Aussie Allan

[Grozdan]

Hi Grozdan,

I think I would be prepared to put up with a slight bottlenecking, if that's correct (must admit I haven't done the math) on the second card of a SLI setup, to keep the heat and noise down but fair point.

I agree with you  on that. Slight drop of performance due to bottlenecking is nothing compared to all that power. I was just referring to having the max possible performance gain.

@Aussie - Thanks for the info... It's good to know that performance drop is highly exaggerated...

As for me, I would always by one GTX 580 than two GTX 570 but what actually I would do is to buy only one GTX 570 because this card is going to be more than enough until next gen cards which will provide more power! SLI of expensive cards is a waste of money...

[Dark Mantis]

As for me, I would always by one GTX 580 than two GTX 570 but what actually I would do is to buy only one GTX 570 because this card is going to be more than enough until next gen cards which will provide more power! SLI of expensive cards is a waste of money...

I would agree...at least as far as I am concerned. It all starts getting just too expensive with having two or more high end cards running together. Alright for the millionaires amoungst us I suppose.

[Fierce Guppy]

   Guppy! ..... good advice from Grozdan

   "Think of it like this and save yourself some grief"

    Add together the combined price of those two sexy Windforce GTX 570s............and go out and buy a single,Nuclear powered,  kick-ass card......1.5 or even 2Gb of dedicated video memory.......you'll probably find the real world difference to be marginal at worst over 2, 460/470 cards in SLI

  and Half the worry of two cards in piggy-back mode........if there high performance, or SOC, or even OC..........one's gunna get cooked that close together..........unless you can get at-least one PCI-E slot between them

  250mm fans look inexpressive......but can't fill a plastic bag.........hard to explain but there good at suppling air if there's little or no pressure in the case .... a good set of exhaust fans are paramount to make this combination work ..... high end video cards need a good supply of cool air.....lots of it.......getting rid of that air is more important in keeping the cards from turning the inside of your case into an oven within minutes.

  Temp related BSODs are a proverbial PITA......(Pain in the Ass)....

  Aussie Allan

In the end I went for the single, nuclear powered, kick-ass card option and purchased a Gigabyte GTX 590.  Even if I could get a second GTX 570 into the 3rd x16 slot to achieve a nice gap, it later dawned on me that there is no place else to put my PCI-E TV card except in the 2nd x16 slot.  Goodbye nice spacious gap.

Well, anyway, to avoid this situation happening to me again my future build will include a motherboard with a PCI-E slot layout like:



Tony.