GA H87N Wi-Fi rev 2.0 problem entering UEFI after Ultra Fast Boot r enable

[araisi]

Like the title says. Currently I have trouble entering UEFI after setting Ultra Fast Boot. I'm using Gigabyte GA H87N Wi-Fi rev 2.0 motherboard and Palit GTX 660 Ti 2GB.
So let's start from the beginning. I've already done an UEFI win 8 install on GPT partition. After that I tried to fiddle a bit with the secure boot. After a custom install of secure boot key, the first sign of trouble start: I got blank screen and can't boot.
So I found out that I can circumvent the problem by unplugging monitor from graphic card and plug into mother board instead. After it boot, I plug it back to the graphic card and it work just fine. And after that first boot, I can boot it normally (most of the time) direct from graphic card. There are several time I need to do the unplug trick though.
At the time I can still enter UEFI by shift+click restart button on windows power menu. So I enter UEFI, switch secure boot mode from user to default (which still keep the previous keys and still keep secure boot enabled) and changing fast boot from enabled to Ultra Fast Boot.
I know that UFB requires GOP compatible graphic card and judging by the card's temper when enabling secure boot it doesn't seem likely to be the case.
But surprisingly it works. I can boot in 12 seconds from off to login menu using 7200 RPM hdd.
So now that I see that UFB works, I wanted to check some more on UEFI, perhaps disable secure boot altogether. But I can't enter UEFI. When I shift+ click restart, there's no advanced menu. There's only 3 menu: return to Win8, boot into DVD/USB/network, turn off.
It's there any other option to enter UEFI other than using Shift+ click restart?
Since on booting, there's no longer logo screen, del key is definitely useless.

[ex58]

Clear _CMOS and set from begging.

[araisi]

That would mean I have to pull out motherboard's battery right?

[ex58]

No,
you have 2 small pins (page 31 in Manual)..... CRL_CMOS......short them with screwdriver or some metal.
Just Off PSU before short this 2 pins.

[ppinto]

No,
you have 2 small pins (page 31 in Manual)..... CRL_CMOS......short them with screwdriver or some metal.
Just Off PSU before short this 2 pins.

Wouldn't that short the battery as well? Unless it's somehow protected against high current, it could significantly shorten its life...

[ex58]

No,
you have 2 small pins (page 31 in Manual)..... CRL_CMOS......short them with screwdriver or some metal.
Just Off PSU before short this 2 pins.

Wouldn't that short the battery as well? Unless it's somehow protected against high current, it could significantly shorten its life...

No.at all.
This is deducated for BIOS,but use battery help......

[ppinto]

Sorry but I think you're wrong: the battery supplies the CMOS terminals. If you don't interrupt that supply before shorting the CMOS terminals, you'll be also shorting the battery's terminals, and therefore reducing its life.

And the instructions for clearing the CMOS values on my motherboard's manual agree with me: turn off PC; remove battery; wait 1 minute or short the CLEAR CMOS pins for 5 seconds; reinsert the battery; turn the PC back on.

The manual even says that you can "use a metal object like a screwdriver to touch the positive and negative terminals of the battery holder, making them short for 5 seconds."

So, shorting the CLEAR CMOS pins is the same as shorting the battery holder, which will obviously short the battery as well if it hasn't been previously removed, like the manual says...

And besides from reducing the battery's life, it's also not a good idea to try to clear the CMOS without removing the battery first because on one hand you want to the voltage on the CMOS terminals to be zero, but on the other hand the battery will still be trying to supply 3 V to the CMOS terminals, generating a high current, and whether or not the voltage at the CMOS terminals drops to zero will depend on the relative resistances of the short you make with the screwdriver, the resistance of the path between the battery and the CMOS terminals, and the internal resistance of the battery.

So also in order to ensure a good clearing of the CMOS values, you will want to remove the battery first, otherwise some of its current may leak to the CMOS (if the voltage at its terminals is not exactly zero) and it may keep its values, unless you short the CMOS terminals for a very long time, but then you'll definitely end with a complete discharged CMOS battery.

[dmdilks]

I just learn something that I have been clearing cmos for over 30yrs. That every time I would clear the cmos it will be killing the battery life.

Yes the book does say that you can do it two ways. But it doesn't say that if you do it one way vs the other way. That it kill the battery life.

If that was a problem that when you clear the cmos by shorting the two pins. That they would have put that alert in the book.

Yes you could be right but it would take a very long time for that to happen. 

[ppinto]

I just learn something that I have been clearing cmos for over 30yrs. That every time I would clear the cmos it will be killing the battery life.

Not if you remove the battery first.

Yes the book does say that you can do it two ways. But it doesn't say that if you do it one way vs the other way.

The manual says that you can either short the CLEAR CMOS pins or short the terminals of the battery holder (it's the same), but in either case always remove the battery first.

It does not say that you can do it with the battery in place.

If that was a problem that when you clear the cmos by shorting the two pins. That they would have put that alert in the book.

The problem is (trying to) clear the CMOS without removing the battery first, not by shorting the CLEAR CMOS pins: that's perfectly OK if you remove the battery first, as the manual tells you to do.

[dmdilks]

The manual says that you can either short the CLEAR CMOS pins or short the terminals of the battery holder (it's the same), but in either case always remove the battery first.

It does not say that you can do it with the battery in place.

Maybe your book is telling you something different, but this is right from the book. It doesn't say you have to pull the battery.

13. CLR_CMOS (Clear CMOS Jumper)
Use this jumper to clear the BIOS configuration and reset the CMOS values to factory defaults. To clear
the CMOS values, use a metal object like a screwdriver to touch the two pins for a few seconds.

Always turn off your computer and unplug the power cord from the power outlet before clearing the CMOS values.
After system restart, go to BIOS Setup to load factory defaults (select Load Optimized Defaults) or
manually configure the BIOS settings (refer to Chapter 2, "BIOS Setup," for BIOS configurations).

[ppinto]

OK, I've been looking at CR2032 datasheets and these batteries seem to have an internal resistance of at least 15 Ω and therefore the current will never be very high even if you short it, which is what happens if you short the CLEAR CMOS pins without removing the battery first.

3 V over 15 Ω during 5 seconds is 3/15 * 5/3600 = 0.28 mAh

These batteries have a typical capacity of 220 mAh, so the discharge during the short is only 0.13% of its capacity, not relevant.

Completely discharging the battery would require a short of 0.220 Ah/ 0.2 A = 1.1 hours. That's probably why Gigabyte doesn't bother to tell you to remove the battery first.

However the typical discharge current for these batteries is only 0.2 mA: shorting it leads to a current 1000 times larger, which is not good for the battery's health, and that will have its own implications on a shortened life.

And as I said above, even for the purpose of clearing the CMOS data, it's preferable to remove the battery first to ensure that zero volts are applied to the CMOS terminals, and its content is erased faster, regardless of the resistance of the short itself. Asus even mentions this for their current boards: if clearing the CMOS doesn't work by shorting the CLEAR CMOS pins for a few seconds, then remove the battery and repeat the procedure, that will work for sure!

[ex58]

http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/faq-page.aspx?fid=1758&pid=2844
http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?topic=2286.0

 .....and I won't waste my time on this threat.

[ppinto]

http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/faq-page.aspx?fid=1758&pid=2844
http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?topic=2286.0

My question was if shorting the battery ― which is what shorting the CLEAR CMOS pins without removing the battery first does, despite you saying the contrary ― would significantly shorten its life.

Your two links say absolutely nothig about that. My previous post hopefully does shed some light on the issue, showing that it's probably no big deal, due to the (high) internal resistance of the battery.

.....and I won't waste my time on this threat.

Threat? Did you somehow feel threatened by something I may have wrote earlier in this thread? No need to, we're all friends here, pal!

[dmdilks]

The thing is that I understand what you are saying. Most of us probably do pull the battery when we clear the cmos.

But I think what he was trying to say was you don't really have too. It will not really hurt the battery.

If it did again I think all the MB companies would have put that as a alert into their books. Plus you were going by something else and not the book.

[ppinto]

The thing is that I understand what you are saying. Most of us probably do pull the battery when we clear the cmos.

But I think what he was trying to say was you don't really have too. It will not really hurt the battery.

That's also now clear to me: I showed above that shorting the battery for 5 seconds will only discharge 0.13% of its capacity, which is negligeable.

If it did again I think all the MB companies would have put that as a alert into their books. Plus you were going by something else and not the book.

Yes, I mixed info from an old Asus board I have and my current Gigabyte, and indeed only the Asus manual says to remove the battery before shorting the CMOS pins (see below), the Gigabyte manual only tells you to remove the battery before shorting the battery holder's terminals, not before shorting the CLEAR CMOS pins, which is a bit contradictory btw.



And in the 2nd link provided by ex58 above, Dark Mantis (Gigabyte employee?) also cautioned in 2010 in point 3 against shorting the battery: "you can use a metal object like a screwdriver to touch the positive and negative terminals of the battery holder (NOT the battery!) , making them short for 5 seconds" (my emphasys).

So there's some mixed info out there from the manufacturers, but I agree they currently no longer tell you to remove the battery before shorting the CLEAR CMOS pins. Unless the CMOS doesn't get properly cleared, then they tell you to remove the battery and repeat the process!