Buying new w/c components and need suggestions

[WarYur]

DM, No I really didn't take what AA said negatively at all and had hoped that what I said at the end would show that but then I guess trying to explain my shown choices didn't convey my openness to suggestion very well either.  In asking what he meant by lack of imagination I wasn't attacking or seemingly taking offense I was more asking for him to be a bit more specific regarding what exactly I was missing as what he said to me was a bit vague.   A statement more like hey W, maybe you need to put another reservoir there or perhaps another rad in that position would have been far more helpful for me anyway.   Since this will be the very first build with separate parts rather than the Koolance offerings that were more all in one combinations save the specific water blocks, tubing, and various hardware for the tubing I am totally open to suggestion.  That is why I have been asking you so any questions too but you were saying that one didn't really even need a reservoir if I am not mistaken although I can't see putting a water cooled system together without one but then I may have misunderstood you as well which is a thing I seem to be pretty good at.     All that said do you think that with the 2 x GTX 480's in my loop that run pretty hot without them being overclocked that I should go ahead and put a reservoir in between them or might you or AA have any specific suggestions about what I should put where in the loop overall?  I am totally in learning mode once again so I will certainly take any and all suggestions.  My only issue now however is if I did actually need something that i don't have laying around here somewhere is that I have already spent WAY too much money...   

So far this is one of the friendliest forums I have been around and especially you as a mod have been more than helpful where on other forums someone asking the more basic questions might have just been ignored which has happened to me back when I was first just learning to build a computer let alone do any water cooling.  I am still unsure about some of the aspects of building with the specific parts since this is the first time doing so as I already said with such things as how to install the fans on the top and bottom of the three fan radiator and other basic things but having a fair idea of how to do it I am sure that I will prevail.  You are correct though I do have about everything I need and have been installing some of it so that I will only have to install the CPU water block when it finally gets here.  Remember I bought that HeatKiller from Aquatuning that was supposed to be in on the 2nd of May and then that turned into today, the 10th of May and I still won't know if they got it in today until this afternoon sometime.

Speaking of the Watercool HeatKiller CPU water block, it doesn't come with a backplate and the person who answered my email when I asked whether or not it came with one told me that one wasn't actually necessary but that many people bought one anyway.   Should I then order a back plate for it anyway?  I was surprised that it didn't come with a back plate actually because the two I have from Koolance have backplates so I assumed that they all came with them.

[Dark Mantis]

Regarding the Heatkiller 3's backplate I really don't know why it doesn't come included as in my opion it should be. I reckon that if you are fairly competent with your hands that you could easilly customise any 1156/1155 backplate that you have to fit. I would advise using one though to sprtead the load. The motherboards today are much thinner than they use dto be and will bend and distort much more easilly.

The answer to the reservoir question is basically right. You do not need a reservoir and for many years didn't have them as an option. However they do make things easier and allow for expansion of the water as it gets hotter if you leave a bit of air in the reservoir. Acts a bit like a buffer. It also makes it easier to fill the loop and clear the air bubbles.

Thank you for the kind words and I am glad that you find it a friendly atmosphere here. I never mind helping anyone (as long as they remain civil) as there was a time albeit ages ago when the boot was on the other foot and I was the one learning. 

[Aussie Allan]

  DM where always learning...... and I've got a new post later on tonight that we all need to read, even it's just to remind us what we've forgot!

 Now back to business....."Limited to our imagination"......I,ll try and expand on this a little with an example.

   When I was designing my last rigg, Because I was going for so many water block cooling points, I was worried about compound water temp in the loop, that is the temp of the water going from CPU-GPU-2X Mosfets-TRI-Bridge block ..ext,ext  ... it might start out at 28C but could be as high as 34-38C by the last block.... by putting in a "Y" Tube connector just after the pump outlet and another just before going back to reservoir, I still have a single loop circuit but I can split the temp load......CPU and GPU on one bypass as this is the blocks with the highest flow rating (in quick, out quick which help hold down temps down in a given cycle)  and tri-block for north/south and 2 off mosfets which have an impeded flow because of block design, this also has another plus as the pressure load over the entire circuit is also reduced, helping overall efficiency still further.........just one way I used my imagination to build something that little bit better, faster , neater .

 Aussie Allan

[Dark Mantis]

Yes I agree. Some of these loops can get quite complicated especially if you are trying to find the optimum direction for the maximum number of components. I was just going over  a very complex loop which a friend is building on another forum I help out on. He's watercooling everything including his pump! Well not quite the pump but everything else that you can think of. I am a bit concerned as he has a multi pump setup which is going to be running at about 30+ lbs sq in. and he's not finished yet!

[Aussie Allan]

  A little bit of Knowledge can be a Dangerous thing sometimes, especially if you have deep pockets, ....By the sound of it he's got a number of pumps in series, (Series for head, Parallel for flow)  which does nothing to improve flow-rate really (Fact!)  but overcomes restriction and resistance on a given circuit to a some extent, pretty handy too if a pump goes down,

   Having ultra high head pressure set-ups in reality goes against current block design as most manufactures are opting for impeded flow in their blocks, high velocity coolant hammering into the fins and then get it out fast works well!

   Most people haven't got there heads around the term "Critical Flow Rate" as yet,  eg........Once a given fluid (at a set viscosity)  has reached critical flow through a given restriction.......no matter how much more pressure is applied the flow rate will remain constant..... really is quite an exponential formula ......you end up throwing a lot of Watts and  lb/per/sq/in for very little gain after a certain point.

 Ive always remembered one handy engineering snip, and that is : " A 2" pipe can carry 8X more fluid at a given pressure then a 1" pipe"

 If you put a flow metre in the circuit and fire up only one pump and take a reading , ...then fire up both pumps.......... I'll bet my left knacker the difference would be around the 10-15% mark at best............"Please God Let Me Be Right" 

 Aussie Allan   

[WarYur]

Well now I don't know what I should do except try and get my money back from Aquatuning.  The Watercool HeatKiller CPU water block now says "Shipping date unknown" right above the product itself so it appears as if i won't be getting the HEATKILLER  special edition nickel black chrome CPU block from Aquatuning.  I had a hunch that something was amiss this morning actually when they didn't get back to me regarding the backplate for that block.  I'm not liking the fact that they are kindof ignoring me right now as  t hey have not either answered my last comment/question about that block and have yet to tell me via email that they won't be getting it in today and that they do not know when it might come in now.  Definitely not cool.  If I had a customer that had just spent over $400 on my website I would be doing everything I could do to make sure that he/she came back for more the next time they needed more parts.    I really wanted that particular block too as it is the best looking one for the motherboard I have and is just all around a well made water block.  I sure hope that it won't be a hassle in getting my money back from them.  I need it to be able to order another one from another site. 

I tried to go onto the Watercool web site to try and order one of them directly from them but for some reason Firefox won't translate the page for me.  From what I could make out on their site though they only sell to companies/people over on that side of the pond. MAN!  I want this rig to be ready to game   Yesterday!  I still have that Corsair CPU H-70 if push comes to shove though but I really didn't want to use that thing..  Anyone have any other suggestions as to what CPU block I could use that IS in stock somewhere?   I sure wish that I could contact that Watercool website though to see if they know of any resellers in the states that might still have one of the special edition blocks out there

[Dark Mantis]

Hi WarYur

Doesn't seem to be going well for you in regard of the HeatKiller 3.0 and Aquatuning. They are a very big company and in general reliable athough any firm can have it's problems with deliveries. You could always try the UK Aquatuning site and see if they could help you. They seem to have most of them in stock.

https://www.aquatuning.co.uk/index.php/XTCsid/j1828s6ev57adva8v1nn0t2vvacjbstj

Allan I hope that you weren't attached to that left knacker!    The OP in question is a cooling engineer and has been checking as he went with flow gauges etc.

I agree in principle though that you can only push a liquid so hard before reaching  a point of diminishing returns.

[Aussie Allan]

Hi WarYur

Doesn't seem to be going well for you in regard of the HeatKiller 3.0 and Aquatuning. They are a very big company and in general reliable athough any firm can have it's problems with deliveries. You could always try the UK Aquatuning site and see if they could help you. They seem to have most of them in stock.

https://www.aquatuning.co.uk/index.php/XTCsid/j1828s6ev57adva8v1nn0t2vvacjbstj

Allan I hope that you weren't attached to that left knacker!    The OP in question is a cooling engineer and has been checking as he went with flow gauges etc.



I agree in principle though that you can only push a liquid so hard before reaching  a point of diminishing returns.

  I'd really like to see the data when he's further down the track.......And WarYur...the heat killer is a very good performer but if you google temp tables for CPU waterblocks you'll see there isnt that much between the best and worst ... maybe 6C across the lot...what set heatkiller apart is it's overall design especially mounting ang backplate design..........if I was you, I'd hold out.

                                                                                        DM!

 Me Meck inginear  .... See, eavan spill like one.......in principal I'll stand by my statements.........Over the next couple of days I'll dig up some links you might find handy reading,...and although I don't want to get into a pissing competition or free a vasectomy paid for by Gigabyte, I'll agree to Water pistols at 10 paces.

 Aussie Allan 

[Dark Mantis]

Fair enough Allan! As I say in principle I would agree with your hypothesis but he is one of these that isn't short of a bob or two and likes to push things to the limit even if it isn't cost effective! He does a lot of LN2 and DICE etc. The more off the wall the better.

[WarYur]

DM

The US and Canada website are exactly the same as the ones for any other country but thanks anyway.  I just got an email back from Aquatuning says thing the guy I was taking to in the offices over there as any communication whether it says US or UK goes to the same place in Germany.  I kindof flamed the poor guy for not being up front with me and then found out that he was out for the weekend so now I feel badly for doing so.  I have now asked him if he could give watercool a call or email and ask them to at least send them one of that water block for me anyway but he also may have refunded my money back to PayPal too.  Now PayPal I am still pretty upset with because knowing their habit of taking money first out of your bank account and then going to any credit card on their system for you I went in and deleted totally my bank account and left the credit cards there so that they would be forced to take the money from the credit card but that backfired on me for some reason as they had my bank account still on file somewhere and took me into arrears making me scramble to put $200 back into checking and having to pay about $60 worth of overdrafts.  Grrrr....  Luckily I had the money elsewhere but still...  So anyway are you saying that maybe I should just choose one of the other Watercool water blocks for my CPU or what?  Which one would you get that they have?

AA

So you are saying that I should just wait for when watercool gets off their duff and sends Aquatuning one of the water blocks that I want?  You want ME to be patient?  Interesting concept...   LOL.  You are probably right of course but I really wanted to have this rig up and running by now.  However I just send Aquatuning a note saying for one thing that I was sorry for making any flame oriented comments (I hate humility!)    and two if they hadn't already put the money for the block back into PayPal I would appreciate them getting an exact date from watercool and that I might wait for the block if it isn't that much longer.  If I spoke whatever language that is on the main watercool pages I would find the appropriate phone number and call them to find out from the horses mouth so to speak if they planned on ever sending Aquatuning that water block but since I can't tell which phone numbers are for what I am kindof at their mercy especially since I won't know if they will send that water block tomorrow or three months from now... 

[Dark Mantis]

If you want to know what the numbers are for even in another language you cna always use your friend Google.

I was just mentioning that there were most of the Heatkiller range in stock in the UK store fo Aquatuning so I can't see why they can't arrange to send one from there.

[WarYur]

If you want to know what the numbers are for even in another language you cna always use your friend Google.

I was just mentioning that there were most of the Heatkiller range in stock in the UK store fo Aquatuning so I can't see why they can't arrange to send one from there.

Ya but,  Looking at one languages pages is the same as looking on any other of the specific language pages which of course would include  the actual German site becasue it all comes from the same warehouse in Germany.  Sorry if I wasn't making that clear enough.  I know they have other Watercool water blocks on their site as do many of the places in the states that carry them but each and every site in the US specifically does not have  that special water block so it sure must have been one that everyone wanted as they are all showing out of stock for it.   I suppose I could do the Google thing for their specific office numbers at watercool and I have a Vonage line in my place so it shouldn't be TOO expensive to call them but I wonder if they have anyone there that speaks English?  I guess there's only one way to find that out huh?  Since Google is pretty much embedded (if that is the correct word for it)  in my Firefox browser as it brings up their different tools when I hit upon something that one of them can be used automatically to include the language translator I just thought that if I could have done that it would have already suggested it but you never know so now I am off to see if I can find a Watercool phone number and someone that understands me over there after I get done here.  I'll have to look up the time difference once again becasue now I can't remember how many hours ahead of us you guys are.  I think it is as much as 8 hours though right?

Also I was asking too if any of the ones that they do have in stock would be alright but keeping in mind that the color scheme for my rig is just as important to me as the power I can tweak out of the build.  AA mentioned that there was only a difference of around 6* C between all the blocks but to me 6*C could make a huge difference if it was a difference of shutting my system down or not.  I'm even re-considering the usage of the silver colored hardware that I have for installing the tubing but I can't get away from the silver colored GTX 480 water blocks because I can't spend too much more.  Me has no deep pockets here boss.  Sadly...     Don't I wish I did!   I would be running a computer the size of half my living room if I did.  LOL...  WMWAHAHAHAAA.  (or however you might spell a deep maniacal laugh) 

So is that "special edition" of the Watercool CPU block any different in the inner workings of it?   I can Google that as well but figure you already know.

[Dark Mantis]

Hi

No the special edition only differs from most of the others in the range by it's outward appearance. There is one cheaper one that is not quite so good.

Depending on where you are in the States we are roughly 8 hours ahead of you.

I agree 6C is a big difference and to be honest I doubt that you would ever see that much, probably more like 2-3C.

You obviously have the same sort of ideas as me when it comes to computer building!

[WarYur]

Hiya, and Good Morning!  LOL, this is about the time of day (early morning that I start to play my PC games so that I don't wake the neighbors.  That is probably the only reason we are on at the same time a lot because some days I don't play anything so I am all about looking up stuff regarding the next rig I am TRYING to build.  I really like the skinneelabs reviews a lot.  Very informative and he or someone there anyway in a review on the HK ver 3 LT was saying that he put a 1mm layer of Silicon caulk on top of the impingement plate and got even better results with his tests doing that on both the LT and LC models.  Pretty cool...  I would imagine that you would have already seen it but here is the URL anyway; http://skinneelabs.com/heatkiller-3-0-lt-lc/2/

Now I am wondering what the HK ver 3 LT block that is that golden color looks like and/or matches the gold looking color on the P67A-UD7 I have here.  I did finally write to Watercool to see if they were planning on sending aquatuning anything in the near future or could I buy the CPU waterblock I wanted from them directly.  It remains to be seen what they will answer and IF they will bother answering some idiot in the states.  LOL...  I added that I understood that was really none of my business whether or not they were about to ship their products to aquatuning but I really did need to know so that if not I would go and try for another water block.      I needed to give it a shot anyway...  I did look look at the block that looked a bit like the special edition one but it's not even an LT model and I suppose no matter what it looks like that is the model I want.  Just nothing silver colored.  Yuck!  As I said earlier though I may have to have some silver color in there or buy all new hardware which probably won't be happening unless I go out and steal some hubcaps or something.   (NOT!) I really like the black barbs and such with the UV blue tubing I bought though...

Ya well I may have the same sort of ideas that you have but there is a rather large difference in what you know and understand about water cooling and even computer building than i do.  I did find out that it is possible to teach an old dog new tricks though!      I get a kick out of building computers and I wish I hadn't found that out mid life but I will be enjoying my games and building newer and faster computers in a rocking wheelchair one day.  LOL...  Well, now I am off to play a bit and then hit the sack.

[Dark Mantis]

I get a kick out of building computers and I wish I hadn't found that out mid life

That's probably that there weren't any around when we were younger. Real shame just think of the fun we could have had.

I think Watercool should write back to you if only as a concerned customer as after all if it wasn't for the likes of you they wouldn't have a market. A fact that I am sure isn't lost on them.