AMD Phenom II X4 960T Black Edition o/c

[Krisbee]

You are unable to write whats your c&q scale, althought I asked it several times...

Didn't I write it already above?

3400Mhz - 1.275V
3000Mhz - 1.125V
2300Mhz - 1.125V
1600Mhz - 1.125V
800MHz  - 1.125V

Laugh as much as you want, but first try understand what the other person says.
You really were a waste of time.

I understand perfectly what you are saying.

What is that which you can but I can't?!...

This ..

 http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2128009

and this ..

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2136419

Or have you actually got an further?   Goodbye and good luck.

[agros]

Didn't I write it already above?
3400Mhz - 1.275V
3000Mhz - 1.125V
2300Mhz - 1.125V
1600Mhz - 1.125V
800MHz  - 1.125V

So the answer is--> from 1.12 to 1.27 ?! Then your cpu works with less of its power. Maximum should be 1.4 or 1.5...
How do you watch it? Do you watch it real time?

I understand perfectly what you are saying.

Your posts so far prove that a) you dont understand b) you avoid to answer many of my questions.
Read the next quote-->

This .. http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2128009 and this ..

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2136419

Or have you actually got an further?   Goodbye and good luck.

But these images are not what I m tallking about. I dont want downgrade my cpu. You need read thread from the beggining.

[DarkstaR]

Hi 

My 960T @ x5 1600T doesn't drop its voltage too when cool n quiet function is enabled... seems to be the case for each "zosma core"...  My previous x3 720 b.e dropped its voltage to 1,075v but my 960T remains at the vcore set in bios...
On auto voltage it remains at 1,35v, turbocore on or off and c1e on or off...
Only the frequence drops...
So in order to save power i've turned on cnq, turbocore and c1e state but lowered on purpose the vcore of my 960T at 1,25v which obviously prevents me to overclock it very well... (14,5x225 @ 1,25v and 16x225 @ 1,35v turbocore on)
But previously i've succeeded in o/cing it at 17x225 turbocore on @ 1,525v  @ cnq on.
And now what interests me is saving power for 12h/24h use 

[Dark Mantis]

I only want to say that a lot of this trying to save power and cut down on the power when in idle etc is generally not worth the effort. The amount of power actually saved is negligable and while the idea is admirable the reallity of it is fairly futile.

[agros]

Hi  

My 960T @ x5 1600T doesn't drop its voltage too when cool n quiet function is enabled... seems to be the case for each "zosma core"...   My previous x3 720 b.e dropped its voltage to 1,075v but my 960T remains at the vcore set in bios...
On auto voltage it remains at 1,35v, turbocore on or off and c1e on or off...
Only the frequence drops...
So in order to save power i've turned on cnq, turbocore and c1e state but lowered on purpose the vcore of my 960T at 1,25v which obviously prevents me to overclock it very well... (14,5x225 @ 1,25v and 16x225 @ 1,35v turbocore on)
But previously i've succeeded in o/cing it at 17x225 turbocore on @ 1,525v  @ cnq on.
And now what interests me is saving power for 12h/24h use  

Helloo!
Glad to meet someone with same cpu's, from 720 to 960T  
Indeed, c&q dropped 720's vcore to 1.1V but 960T wont  go below 1.3V
If u set turbo core on then u ll have 1.4-1.5V
About o/c, u can easily get 4GHz with some +1.0V or so. I do it as 200x20

Now, getting to the point,
u said that u set power to 1.25V... How did u do that?

I only want to say that a lot of this trying to save power and cut down on the power when in idle etc is generally not worth the effort. The amount of power actually saved is negligable and while the idea is admirable the reallity of it is fairly futile.

Yes, but when u run an absolutely fanless system u need even the smallest energy saving

[DarkstaR]

I only want to say that a lot of this trying to save power and cut down on the power when in idle etc is generally not worth the effort. The amount of power actually saved is negligable and while the idea is admirable the reallity of it is fairly futile.

I'm not really sure Dark Mantis... Lowering default vcore is interesting for those who want to save a little bit power/energy above all when letting work on idle (downloading) their pc's...even tough the difference must not be taller than that, but worth the bargain for me

[DarkstaR]

Hi  

My 960T @ x5 1600T doesn't drop its voltage too when cool n quiet function is enabled... seems to be the case for each "zosma core"...   My previous x3 720 b.e dropped its voltage to 1,075v but my 960T remains at the vcore set in bios...
On auto voltage it remains at 1,35v, turbocore on or off and c1e on or off...
Only the frequence drops...
So in order to save power i've turned on cnq, turbocore and c1e state but lowered on purpose the vcore of my 960T at 1,25v which obviously prevents me to overclock it very well... (14,5x225 @ 1,25v and 16x225 @ 1,35v turbocore on)
But previously i've succeeded in o/cing it at 17x225 turbocore on @ 1,525v  @ cnq on.
And now what interests me is saving power for 12h/24h use  

Helloo!
Glad to meet someone with same cpu's, from 720 to 960T  
Indeed, c&q dropped 720's vcore to 1.1V but 960T wont  go below 1.3V
If u set turbo core on then u ll have 1.4-1.5V
About o/c, u can easily get 4GHz with some +1.0V or so. I do it as 200x20

Now, getting to the point,
u said that u set power to 1.25V... How did u do that?

I only want to say that a lot of this trying to save power and cut down on the power when in idle etc is generally not worth the effort. The amount of power actually saved is negligable and while the idea is admirable the reallity of it is fairly futile.

Yes, but when u run an absolutely fanless system u need even the smallest energy saving

I totally agree Agros  And yes i'm totally satisfied having changed my x3 720 BE for this x4 960T BE !
Concerning o/c when i let it on 4 cores i succeeded in o/cing it at 20x200 @ 1,525v turbocore OFF... and then since i've succeeded in unlocking the 5th core i o/ced it at 17x225 @ 1,525v turbocore ON but now in order to save power and because of its non lowering vcore when CNQ is enabled i've decided to lower manually through bios the vcore of my X5 at 1,25v (Normal Mode -> 14,5x225 + Idle -> 4x225) and 1,35v when turbocore is working -> 16x225 
You only have to set all these parameters through bios Agros 
Here's the cpu-z validator banner of my overclocked X4 960T @ X5

[agros]

Well my friend, I tried once to set  value <1.35 and then system wasnt able to start. So I had to clear CMOS...
Can you help me? What exactly should I set? (just 4 cores)

Of course this won't be a solution. We ll have to re-set it each time we need more power.
We want a program to auto run vcore from 1 to 1.5 rage.

About o/c, I m not too experienced. Do u think that for 3.8GHz  its better to set 225x17 than 19x200? 

[DarkstaR]

Hi

Your system should usually boot up at 1,30v or less (for example 1,275v) at its stock frequency --> 15x200, let's just try this...if it crashes just lower the frequency of your 960T using 4 cores, for example: 14,5 or 14x200 in order to check from which frequency your phenom is able to boot up with the vcores i've mentionned above... but remember each cpu even concerning the same model has its own abilities concernig o/c and voltage efficience...it depends of its core: "acbbe, ccbbe..." and its manufacture year... my 960T has "ccbbe cb 11 38" species for your knowledge...And for o/cing 17x225 should be better than 19x200 as a higher htt allows a higher memory bandwidth..but you only should see the difference in benchmarks not in day to day use...
Just know that thuban/zosma cores behave differently than deneb/heka/callisto cores...as the vcore set in MIT bios directly regards the turbocore vcore and when idling this turbocore vcore automaticaaly lowers to minus 0,1v... My settings in my bios are exactly: 1,375v (concerns turbocore) and 1,275v for idle (this line doesn't appear but is implicite as idle is the result of turbocore vcore minus 0,1v) but be careful cool and quiet and turbocore have to be enabled to allow cpu throttling, without that the set vcore never changes !!

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/38575-amd-phenom-ii-x6-1100t-black-edition-six-core-processor-review-2.html

When clicking on this hyperlink just read this review at the bottom of the page: it explains the fact that each cpu has its own vcore characteristics !!

[agros]

I could try 1.30 or 1.27(1.27V already failed as I said in previous page) but this is still high.
I don't want to lower frequency. Point is not to downgrade cpu but to use less power when idle.

I ll prefer 17x225 instead of 19x200, if you say its better
How much voltage do u raise for 17x225?

..but you only should see the difference in benchmarks not in day to day use...

Are you talking for o/c in general, or for this particular mode 17x225?

...  My settings in my bios are exactly: 1,375v (concerns turbocore) and 1,275v for idle (this line doesn't appear but is implicite as idle is the result of turbocore vcore minus 0,1v) but be careful cool and quiet and turbocore have to be enabled to allow cpu throttling, without that the set vcore never changes !!

I dont use the turbo boost(also to avoid the 1.475 default vcore), I prefer easy o/c up to 4GHz when I need more power. But only for a while because temp will approach 65oC(no fans).

What is your live c&q scale and how do you watch it?

each cpu has its own vcore characteristics !!

Yes, each cpu has its own characteristics but 720 and 960t look like similar-->
official amd site says
720 has a scale 0.85-1.42V, TDP 95W
960T has a scale 0.825-1.475, TDP 95W.
C&Q can auto drop 720's voltage to 1V but cant do the same on 960T?

[DarkstaR]

Yes i'm talking for o/cing in general... i have raised vcore at 1,525v for 17x225 as my 960T is unlocked in 5 cores (need more power for a well/good use in comparison of 4 cores), but it was just for the cpuz validator performance now i have already told you my x5 is set: 16x225 for turboboost mode: vcore 1,375v and 14,5x225 @ 1,275v for idle or normal mode + cool and quiet mode 4x225 @ 1,275v.
Like i've already told you the turboboost vcore can be changed and lowered in comparison of its 1,475v (by default).
For my case i'm obliged to activate turboboost in order to have more performance, as i don't want to overclock too much my cpu as the set vcore in bios doesn't lower (for example if i o/c it at 4ghz it will need 1,525v or 1,55v which it's too much for me so i do a light o/c with a medium voltage 1,275v and i activate turboboost with an acceptable voltage: 1,375v.
And yes and this is what is disappointing cool and quiet doesn't lower 960T's voltage and i don't understand why maybe it is the case for every thuban/zosma cores... Can you inquire about it around you ? For my measures i use hwmonitor and cpu-z  (both at the same time) and now i only use easytune6...but i will wait for a new version of coretemp which will correctly recognize my x5 as i used it before with my 720...this soft is wonderful as it gives equally the cpu load through percentage !
You don't have the choice with this cpu: either you overclock it but it will need high voltage or you downclock it or let it at its normal speed and you will be able to lower its voltage for saving power and for my case i think i have succeeded in finding a very good compromise  

[agros]

Yes i'm talking for o/cing in general...

Ok, let us not discuss about the results of o/c here, maybe in another thread.

.....so i do a light o/c with a medium voltage 1,275v

You told me to reduce frequency in order to reduce voltage. But you reduce voltage and you raise frequency?...  

And yes and this is what is disappointing cool and quiet doesn't lower 960T's voltage and i don't understand why maybe it is the case for every thuban/zosma cores... Can you inquire about it around you ? For my measures i use hwmonitor and cpu-z  (both at the same time) and now i only use easytune6...but i will wait for a new version of coretemp which will correctly recognize my x5 as i used it before with my 720...this soft is wonderful as it gives equally the cpu load through percentage !

If c&q is unable to work as it works on 720 then we need another application which can auto lower voltage to at least 1.0V when idle.
I unquired(asked) already here and also in a couple of other forums, but no any answer.
Cpu-z cant watch live the vcore, right? I use AIDA64, which is the son of Everest. I dont know about hwmonitor, is it good?
And about that ET6... can u use it to under/overclock without bios enter?

Are you sure you have 5 working cores?
How much wei do u have? How much pcmark05?
Or tell me another bench you use, so that we can make some comparison

[Krisbee]

And yes and this is what is disappointing cool and quiet doesn't lower 960T's voltage and i don't understand why maybe it is the case for every thuban/zosma cores... Can you inquire about it around you ?

Yes, it is true for all 960T CPUs.  Please read my contributions to this thread for an explanation. If you are unfamiliar with the terms p-state or CPU Vid , google is your friend.

[Krisbee]

If c&q is unable to work as it works on 720 then we need another application which can auto lower voltage to at least 1.0V when idle.
I unquired(asked) already here and also in a couple of other forums, but no any answer.

I have given you the answer already with references, use the k10stat program.  Here's my Xmas present, another reference to the k10stat program:

http://aspiregemstone.blogspot.com/2009/06/k10stat-amd-griffin-processor.html

I'm sure you could unearth more/better refs with Google.

[Krisbee]

I only want to say that a lot of this trying to save power and cut down on the power when in idle etc is generally not worth the effort. The amount of power actually saved is negligable and while the idea is admirable the reallity of it is fairly futile.

I'm surprised you should say this.  If I offered you two CPUs of the same make/model one which overclocks to 3.8GHz @ 1.4v and the other which overclocks to 3.8Hz at 1.5V, which would you choose?

So why would I choose to operate a CPU at 800Mhz with a Vcore of 1.325V, when it can work at 0.8v, or operate it at 3Ghz with a Vcore of 1.325v when it can work at 1.125V?

I don't have the means to measure the CPU power draw on the 12v line. But there are some published results here:

http://www.lostcircuits.com/mambo//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=103&Itemid=1&limit=1&limitstart=6

The idle Power draw for the 960T is likely to be around 10w, but that's only if Vcore is around 0.8v.  While a CPU is not a simple ohm's law device, the power draw is still reckoned to be roughly proportional to the square of the Vcore.  Operating the 960T at 800Mhz with a Vcore of 1.325V would consume approx 25W.   Likewise, operating at  at 3Ghz with a Vcore of 1.125V instead of 1.325V may use around 20% less power for the CPU.

Of course, the time a system spends in a low CPU state depends on its use, but I believe it's easy to underestimate this.  

One of thses days I'll get myself a power meter and attempt to measure at least the system power draw and get some actual figures for the mix of power states my PC uses. At current UK electricity prices, based on my PC up time, I'd save about £1 per annum for every watt saved.  It could amount to £30 per annum. Not a lot, but not futile, nor does it require much effort to have a 960T operating a more sensible voltages.

So until I can show otherwise, I prefer to lower Vcore for all operating frequencies, reduce power draw and produce less heat.  The system is cooler, fans can be ramped down and noise reduced and the strain on the m/board vrm is less.