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New PC build

babdi

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New PC build
« on: September 07, 2010, 07:21:15 am »
Usage
Gaming,Video editing HD

I am planning to switch to the following

1) MB - GA-890GPA-UD3H
2) CPU - Phenom 3.4 Ghz
3) RAM - Gskill 4GBx4 or 2GBx4
4) GPU - nVidia 460 GTX,1 GB
4) PSU - Corsair 500-600W
5) CPU Coolar - Corsair H70
6) Case - Coolar master HAF 932
7) HDD SATA - 500 to 1 TB Seagate
8) DVD - LG SATA
9) KB - Microsoft
10) Mouse - Microsoft PS2

Questions
1) How good is the motherboard. For the configuration is there a better Gigabyte board ( Love Gigabyte )
2) As the said MB takes 2000 Mhz (OC) should I go for 2000 Memory Sticks or get 1600 or anything less
3) Will AMD MC be able to handle 2000 OC ( Have read absic's related threads )
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 07:23:01 am by babdi »
Phenom II,x4,3.5 Ghz, OC 4.218 Stable
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H rev 2.1
RAM 1600 GSkill-RiPjaws ,9-9-9-24,1.5 V, 16GB
MSI 460 GTX, 1GB
Seagate 320 GB HDD AHCI mode
H70 push pull coolar
Corsair HX750 W PSU
M59 NZXT case

absic

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2010, 08:54:24 am »
Hi Babdi,

well I'm pleased to see that the heat where you are isn't putting you off another PC build. Not going the full water cooling route with this one then?

Going through your specs I would suggest that you don't go for the NVidia  460GTX but look for a similar spec'd ATI GPU. This is a personal choice and based on my own experiences of issues when running NVidia cards on the AMD platform. An ATI GPU does seem to give better compatibility and a lot less problems.

With regard to your questions regarding Memory. Well the Mobo will take faster Modules but you will be limited to using just 2 memory slots.
How will this faster RAM impact on the CPU? To be honest I'm not sure and I am not in a position to actually test these faster modules. But, from my own system and having purchased 1600 Mhz RAM before I knew of the Memory Controller problems, I would say don't waste your money on the faster modules. If you are going to O/C your system then I would suggest going for 1600 MHz RAM, down clocking it to 1333 MHz and boosting the CPU speed. This will actually give your system a bigger speed gain overall and by having the RAM down-clocked, it will give you more room to manoeuvre.

Your PSU is, I think, a little on the light side and I would recommend going for something around the 700-750 Watt mark.
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

babdi

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2010, 09:30:08 am »
Thank you absic for the profound reply.

One important answer I expected was regarding my choice of mother board and my queries relating to that.

1) Yes I am little cheesed off by the present performance. Hence planning to switch. Going for full fledged water cooling is not my game. I am looking for a self sustaining system. H70 fits the bill. It is compact. Does a noticable reduction in temps. I dont over clock to extermes. An over clock upto 3800-3900 should keep me happy. Going over 3900 causes CPU voltages to be near 1.5 or more which is treading quick sand.
2) GPU - Which is the equivalent or better performing ATI card vis-avis 460 GTX.
3) Yes, I can consider a 750 watt PSU if the price difference is not vast.
4) Memory - Even I thought of 1600. Presently I have 1600 set to 1600 and it works just fine.I prefer Gskill to Corsair. I had to return Corsair thrice and switch to Gskill. Corsair runs at 1.80 volts while Gksill runs at 1.65 volts
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 09:32:20 am by babdi »
Phenom II,x4,3.5 Ghz, OC 4.218 Stable
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H rev 2.1
RAM 1600 GSkill-RiPjaws ,9-9-9-24,1.5 V, 16GB
MSI 460 GTX, 1GB
Seagate 320 GB HDD AHCI mode
H70 push pull coolar
Corsair HX750 W PSU
M59 NZXT case

absic

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2010, 10:10:11 am »
Hi Babdi,

To be honest, when it comes to the choice of motherboard the range for the AMD platform isn't that great. If it was my money I would choose the GA-890XA-UD3  http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3421#ov This is an updated version of the GA-790XTA-UD4 which is my current Mobo and, if I were to upgrade today, is the board I would get.

Instead of going for the faster RAM I would opt to spend my money on one of the Phenom ii X6 CPU's, especially if you are going to do a lot of Video Editing and/or rendering.

Also, on the subject of RAM the old adage the more the better definitely applies to anything that involves Video rendering. So, 8 Gig+ of 1333 MHZ RAM would be my own choice based on experience of doing such work and also with regard to the AMD Memory Controller. I am running 8 Gig of Corsair 1600 MHz RAM down-clocked to 1333 Mhz and it works well alongside the 1090T.

As far as ATI Graphics cards go I can only suggest what I would buy if it was my money and I would probably go for one of the Sapphire 5770's http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&leg=&psn=000101&gid=3&sgid=643 or above depending on available funds. I currently use the Sapphire 4850X2 which is a great card but, I don't play games that much and this card does all that I want it to at the moment and it handles Crysis so it's not that bad.  ;).

The reason I suggest a more powerful PSU is that some of these newer Graphic Cards really do like to draw a lot of power on start-up and it is also future proofs you a bit. If you really get into Video Editing the one thing you will need is a lot of HDD space. Whilst external USB/Firewire/e-SATA caddies are an option, I have found that they are never as quick as an internal HDD and, they are also more expensive. The bigger PSU will make sure you have enough power to allow for additional HDD's.
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

Dark Mantis

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2010, 10:25:46 am »

As far as ATI Graphics cards go I can only suggest what I would buy if it was my money and I would probably go for one of the Sapphire 5770's http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&leg=&psn=000101&gid=3&sgid=643 or above depending on available funds. I currently use the Sapphire 4850X2 which is a great card but, I don't play games that much and this card does all that I want it to at the moment and it handles Crysis so it's not that bad.  ;).

The reason I suggest a more powerful PSU is that some of these newer Graphic Cards really do like to draw a lot of power on start-up and it is also future proofs you a bit. If you really get into Video Editing the one thing you will need is a lot of HDD space. Whilst external USB/Firewire/e-SATA caddies are an option, I have found that they are never as quick as an internal HDD and, they are also more expensive. The bigger PSU will make sure you have enough power to allow for additional HDD's.

 I would just like to add my twopenneth to what absic has already said. As for the graphics card I would go for at least the 5830 because that is the first 256bit card in the lineup whereas the 5770 is only 128bit.

On the PSU side I would totally agree with absic and just like to say that there are many problems on this forum brought about by people using under rated power supplies. A lot of the time they don't want to see it but it is the cause of many faults.
Gigabyte X58A-UD7
i7 920
Dominators 1600 x6 12GB
6970 2GB
HX850
256GB SSD, Sam 1TB, WDB320GB
Blu-Ray
HAF 932

Gigabyte Z68X-UD5-B3
i7 3770K
Vengeance 1600 16GB
6950 2GB
HCP1200W
Revo Drive x2, 1.5TB WDB RAID0
16x DLRW
StrikeX S7
Full water cooling
3 x 27" Iiy

babdi

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2010, 11:02:39 am »
Thank you absic
Would you like to tell me why GA-790XTA-UD4 is better compared to one I had mentioned.
Also why X6 instead of X4 3.4
As regards to PSU I need to take a call based on GPU.
ATI has 7950. How would you rate it. The specs looks impressive. All said and done any ATI card I would choose should support DirectX 11.0

Thank you for Darkmantis for chipping in. I always thought PSU specs should optimum for a given configuration plus 20%, just in case !
So if the specs demand for a 700 W PSU I should ideally buy a 850 watts.
Thank you all.
I am negotiating with the Vendor who is going supply the new kit for the best "buy back" price. I will retain my existing BenQ 21 wide HD monitor (Its a month old) and my Altec Langseng speakers (old but delivers nice sound with sub-woofer)
Phenom II,x4,3.5 Ghz, OC 4.218 Stable
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H rev 2.1
RAM 1600 GSkill-RiPjaws ,9-9-9-24,1.5 V, 16GB
MSI 460 GTX, 1GB
Seagate 320 GB HDD AHCI mode
H70 push pull coolar
Corsair HX750 W PSU
M59 NZXT case

absic

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2010, 11:22:08 am »
Actually Babdi I said that if I was buying a new Mobo it would be the GA-890XA-UD3.

The GA-790XTA-UD4 is the board I currently use and the only weakness it has is the Marvell 9128 SATA3 Chip, the updated version (GA-890XA-UD3 ) doesn't use this chipset. The 790XTA has proved very robust in all other areas and I have done a lot of testing with it, using different CPU's, RAM GPU's and HDD's and it has never let me down and I would hope that the newer version of this board would prove to be just as solid.

The reason I suggest going for an X6 is the increased overall performance, when handling audio/video files. I moved from an X4 965 to the X6 1090T and have noticed quite a drop in the time it takes for rendering video files and in batch converting WAV files to MP3, which is something I do quite a bit.

The graphic card you choose is really up to you. The only reason I went for the 5770 was down to cost and I was thinking of what I would buy if it were my money. It is very easy to say go for the most expensive, top of the range hardware, when it is someone else's money. When asked for my opinion, I always think of this and consider what will do the job without being at a ridiculous cost and, more importantly, what would I buy if it was for me.
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

babdi

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2010, 12:07:58 pm »
abisc
Your suggestions and opinions are well received. The reason I asked was from a technical point of view in terms performance,compatibility etc.
Now how do you rate GA-890FXA-UD5 vs GA-X890GPA-UD3H
 Please understand that all AMD MB Gigabyte offers is not available here. The ones I have given above are what is available.
However for Intel CPU the range available is good. The only reaon I am going for AMD is it takes anything that is thrown at it not withstanding
the more heat AMD produces compared to Intel. Also AMD is cheaper for given speed.
Please correct me if I am wrong
Phenom II,x4,3.5 Ghz, OC 4.218 Stable
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H rev 2.1
RAM 1600 GSkill-RiPjaws ,9-9-9-24,1.5 V, 16GB
MSI 460 GTX, 1GB
Seagate 320 GB HDD AHCI mode
H70 push pull coolar
Corsair HX750 W PSU
M59 NZXT case

absic

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2010, 12:27:22 pm »
The GA-890FXA-UD5 is a nice board and would be a good choice. The only reason I didn't go for this is due to the fact that it only has one PCI slot which can be a little bit limiting if you have older PCI cards or more than one of them.

I know heat is an issue for you but I have never had any real problems with excessive heat from any of the AMD rigs I have built. In fact, I believe they are actually cooler than comparable Intel systems. Having just rendered a Video my 1090T CPU peaked at 36°C after more than 90 minutes of high use, which is well within the 62°C max temp of the processor. (ambient here is about 22°).

With the higher end Intel rigs they do actually have an advantage over the highest that AMD have to offer at the moment with regards to overall speed but, as you have mentioned,  that does come at a premium when it comes to cost. I have been using AMD CPU's for a long time now, along with Gigabyte Motherboards and have yet to have any cause for complaint. The systems have all been solid (unless I have tried something really stupid) and the only real issue I have ever encountered have been when trying to use NVidia GPU's. This has primarily been down to the NVidia drivers though, not the actual hardware, hence the fact I recommend ATI cards these days.
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

babdi

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2010, 06:47:03 am »
Thank you absic for the wonderful answer. it is good to see that our wave lengths match.

I had always used nVidia.However, as you rightly said the drivers is the cause for concern.
The new driver 258.96 causes my sytem to hang at windows logo screen and was forced use 191.86. I had written about this in their forum too.

My experience with ATI would be new and hence am little apprehensive. Is the performance of ATI on par or better as compared to nVidia.
I plan to buy Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 5830 1 GB GDDR5. Which card of nVidia it matches or out performs.

I believe,based on you last post, that ATI cards have fewer driver problems and perform flawlessly.

Based on cost vs performance I plan to upgrade subject to a good "buy back" offer. Your comments appreciated.

Motherboard - GA-X890GPA-UD3H rev 2.1 ( UD5 is 30% more costly )
CPU - AMD Phenom BE X4 3.4 Ghz ( 3.2 X6 almost double the cost )
RAM - Gskill F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL - 2 x 2GB x 2
Graphics card -Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 5830 1 GB GDDR5
HDD - Seagate 7200.12 ,Barracuda 500 GB
DVD writer - LG GH22NS50 Optical
PSU - Corsair TX650W ( 850W - high price difference)
PC Case - Coolar master HAF 932
CPU Coolar - Corsair H70
Keyboard+mouse MS
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 06:51:27 am by babdi »
Phenom II,x4,3.5 Ghz, OC 4.218 Stable
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H rev 2.1
RAM 1600 GSkill-RiPjaws ,9-9-9-24,1.5 V, 16GB
MSI 460 GTX, 1GB
Seagate 320 GB HDD AHCI mode
H70 push pull coolar
Corsair HX750 W PSU
M59 NZXT case

absic

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2010, 08:29:30 am »
Hi Babdi,

Ah, my friend, I am not saying that ATI are perfect, only that I have had less issues with them and their drivers, than at any time with NVidia. There can still be problems, just check the forum, but these issues are normally due to other things rather than the drivers.

At the moment, when it comes to graphics cards, ATI are deemed to be of a higher standard than NVidia and, if you look on-line at the numerous reviews for any of the 5*** Series ATI Cards, you will see that they are pretty much the reviewer's choice over NVidia at the moment.

Not sure about your choice of graphic card though, if I were going for a card in that area I would opt either for the 5850 or the 5790. You might want to checkout this Hexus review before making a final choice: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=22569&page=10 As you can see from this review, the 5830 is a bit of a mongrel and I'm not sure I would want to spend so much money on a card that uses more power than the 5850 but performs on a par with the slightly cheaper 5790.

From the specs that you now have, apart from the GPU, I think you are pretty much ready to order and I don't think you will have many problems with it. I think we will always disagree about RAM as you are a GSkill advocate and I am more of a Corsair fan, but hopefully your choice here will be OK. Unfortunately, there seems to be a little glitch at the Gigabyte  Website so I can't check if the RAM is on the QVL at the moment but I'm sure that you have checked that out yourself.
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

babdi

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2010, 09:41:57 am »
Hi absic.
Thank you for GPU analysis and recommendation. I checked review and 5830 is not ranked very well. However 5850 here costs 1500 quid more than 5830.
Hence chose 5830. Barring the power draw I guess performance should be on par or may be a wee bit better compared to 5850. I was corsair fan;By the way Corsair is expensive compared to Gskill here.Also corsair failed me miserably earlier.
OK, I will give prices in Indian Rupees of all ATi cards that is available here. This will help me in taking a good decision with your inputs

1) SAPPHIRE HD 4350 1G -   2475
2) SAPPHIRE HD 5450 1GB - 3700
3) SAPPHIRE HD 4670 1GB - 4445
4) SAPPHIRE HD 5550 1GB - 4700
5) SAPPHIRE HD5830 1GB -  14500
6) SAPPHIRE HD5850 1GB  - 15950
7) Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 5870 - 21900
8) SAPPHIRE HD5870 2GB - 32000
9) SAPPHIRE HD5970 2GB - 37500

7) to 9) is ruled out for me. 6) is expensive. 5) Is my choice. 1) to 4) can be discussed.
Phenom II,x4,3.5 Ghz, OC 4.218 Stable
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H rev 2.1
RAM 1600 GSkill-RiPjaws ,9-9-9-24,1.5 V, 16GB
MSI 460 GTX, 1GB
Seagate 320 GB HDD AHCI mode
H70 push pull coolar
Corsair HX750 W PSU
M59 NZXT case

absic

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2010, 09:52:55 am »
Ah! Now I understand Babdi and, given the options available to you then I would also go for the 5830 especially as you want to be able to play games on this new build.

The 5550 is a good general purpose card and will handle most things, but it is a bit weak when it comes down to some of the higher spec'd games available today. There is a review at overclockers on this card though that you might want to look at, just so you can make an informed decision: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_hd550_ultimate/
Again it is a personal choice but, if it was me, I would probably look at the 5550 and use the money saved on the GPU for a hex core CPU. But, I'm not into playing games so I really don't want or need a high spec'd graphics card!  ;)

hope this helps
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.

babdi

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2010, 10:53:59 am »
Thank you once again absic for your insightful post I did read the review of 5550.It did meet the requirement for the games tested. This is how I sum up
1) Cost - Good
2) Cooling - Average
3) Memory - Fair (DDR 2)
4) Clock - Fair
5) Directx - Good (supports 11.0)


Since I am going for a new rig thought anything I invest should reasonably be future proof.

Your observation of going for X6 with 5550 is worth noting.

Thank you once again absic for being helpful. I will keep in mind the X6 instead of X4
All depends on how much I will get for my existing rig.

I suppose Dark Mantis is pra(e)ying ;)

Phenom II,x4,3.5 Ghz, OC 4.218 Stable
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H rev 2.1
RAM 1600 GSkill-RiPjaws ,9-9-9-24,1.5 V, 16GB
MSI 460 GTX, 1GB
Seagate 320 GB HDD AHCI mode
H70 push pull coolar
Corsair HX750 W PSU
M59 NZXT case

absic

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Re: New PC build
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2010, 10:56:36 am »
Mmmm, DM is most probably trying to hide as he doesn't know a lot about the AMD platform. Don't worry, I'm sure he will return soon enough to throw his two pennyworth into the mix.

Mind you, I must admit to enjoying his silence, it makes a nice change doesn't it?!  ;)
Remember, when all else fails a cup of tea and a good swear will often help! It won't solve the problem but it will make you feel better.